Capturing history.The "Mound of Hostages" is an ancient Irish structure named for kings, such as Niall, who held captives from far and wide.
Credit: Anthony Murphy
Posted on 12/27/2005 12:10:30 AM PST by neverdem
Legend has it that, while raiding England around 500 C.E., the Irish warlord Niall of the Nine Hostages took a young St. Patrick prisoner and brought him to Ireland. Historians disagree about whether Niall was really the kidnapper, but one thing is for certain: This ancient king went on to found the most powerful ruling dynasty in Irish medieval history, the Uí Néill (literally "descendants of Niall"). Now, a study reveals that this royal lineage may be imprinted in the genes of roughly a tenth of Irish men living today.
Although most of our genetic makeup comes from both parents, men inherit their Y chromosome exclusively from their fathers. As such, geneticists can trace paternal lineage by studying genetic markers on this chromosome. Small mutations creep in over generations, so the number of differences in the markers of any two men can reveal how long ago their common forefather lived. In 2003, a population study in East Asia discovered a set of Y chromosomes with very similar markers among men living in what had been the Mongol Empire. The scientists speculated that some 16 million men with these markers were all descendants of Genghis Khan (Science, 23 February 2003, p. 1179).
In the same spirit, geneticist Daniel Bradley and his colleagues from Trinity College in Dublin analyzed the Y chromosomes of 796 Irish men. Interestingly, quite a few shared the same markers--more than would be expected by chance. Looking for a historical explanation, the team realized that many of the men with this Y signature had family names that traced back to various offshoots of the Uí Néills. "Our research shows that these dynastic groups did have a common ancestor," Bradley says, thus providing a genetic underpinning to Ireland's rich genealogical tradition. This ancestor appears to have lived approximately 1700 years ago--consistent with the period of Niall's reign--the team reports 8 December in the American Journal of Human Genetics.
Some experts remain sceptical. Although the findings are compatible with the Niall hypothesis, geneticist Chris Tyler-Smith of the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Cambridge, U.K., warns that the conclusion rests on uncertain assumptions about mutation rates and time between generations. He thinks the main significance of this work is that it shows--as did the earlier Genghis Khan study--how power and status can affect genetics. The Uí Néill Y chromosome owes its success not to a particular evolutionary advantage, he says, but rather to the fact that the high-ranking Uí Néill males in medieval Ireland could father many sons who later did the same.
Capturing history.My family inherited some nasty genetics from our Irish ancestors. My grandmother, born in Ireland had an extra, unused kidney, as did my father, but I have a brother who passes stones every 2 weeks or so for nearly 30 years, a sister that had a kidney removed because of golfball sized stones, and another brother who had a few kidney surgerys to remove pebble sized stones in the pipeline.
As it is, I am offering my brother with the terrible condition one of mine, but it is not a cure, just a kidney he can destroy over the next 40 years of his life.
Still, its Irish, and I'm Irish, so its something! At least its not a Scotts thing!
Genetic Genealogy PING
Early American folk history records that the only thing that Irishmen liked to do more than fight was drink. And the only reason the Irish like to fight among themselves is that they have yet to find a worthy opponent.
Hmm... it would seem to me that this might have morphed into the modern "O'Neill/O'Neal" and variants thereto.
The scientists speculated that some 16 million men with these markers were all descendants of Genghis Khan
And how many scions of William the Impeached will pop up in the gene pool in the furute...
Didn't that hound try to re-assure at least one of his victims that she would not become pregnant because he had the mumps which made him infertile?
He did indeed.
I wonder if Chelsea The Dog-faced Girl ever wondered, as well?
You're cruel!.....to dogs.
Many in my family received the Irish liver, which as you know allows them to consume massive amounts of Guinness.
R1b M343
Location Number
DYS393 13
DYS19 14
DYS391 11
DYS439 11
DYS389-1 13
DYS389-2 16
DYS388 11
DYS390 24
DYS426 12
DYS385a 11
DYS385b 14
DYS392 14
It's my experience that the Irish blood boils at a slightly lower temperature than most.
GGG ping
A couple of years ago my wife and I spent 2 wonderful weeks in Ireland. From that visit we learned one thing; Guiness tastes better when brewed with home waters!!
Statistically, this gives some support to the potential truthfulness of the claim that the right of the first night--also known as jus primae noctis (law of the first night), droit du seigneur (the lord's right) -- was practiced in earlier times in Europe.
Consider: "In some feudal jurisdictions there was something known as the culagium, the requirement that a peasant get permission from his lord to marry. Often this required the payment of a fee. Some say the fee was a vestige of an earlier custom of buying off the lord so he wouldn't get physical with the bride. Similarly, ecclesiastical authorities in some regions demanded a fee before a new husband was allowed to sleep with his wife. Some think this means the clergy once upon a time exercised the right of the first night too."
"...the fact that the high-ranking Uí Néill males in medieval Ireland could father many sons..."
"Lie down, Lass, I am your King."
It's good to be the King.
Ping.
Cheers to that!
All Guinness Stout is brewed in Ireland with water from the River Liffy. (Enough to give anyone pause before imbibing that dark sludge!)
However, Guinness (now owned by a European consortium) uses a different formulation for Stout that is intended for export. Additional sugar is added to US bound bottles and kegs to produce additional alcohol that in turn acts as a preservative. The result is higher alcohol content and it definitely affects the taste of the brew. Stout in Ireland does taste better and it's what we in the US would call "near beer" in terms of alcohol level. Since all alcohol in Ireland is taxed on it's proof (alcohol content), you will find that it requires more drinks (both beer and mixed) to achieve the same level of drunkenness compared to US drinks. (This might explain why Irish visiting the US get drunk more quickly while drinking a similar number of ounces as back at home resulting in some hilarious experiences with my friends from across the sea)
If you're looking for an excellent beer that tastes pretty much as it does in Ireland, check out Smithwick's Ale (Guinness bought the Kilkenney based brewer in the 70's). Anhouser Bush just started importing it to the US last year so you can find it in most good liquor stores. It's my favorite beer in the world followed by Alaskan Amber.
Cheers, you just answered one of those questions I always get asked abroad, but never knew the answer, i.e. does Guinness taste better in Ireland!
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