Posted on 12/20/2005 2:01:37 PM PST by Sonny M
Not to moron hysterics at UnChristian NOT Science Monitor. Comparing a mature developed economic like the US to a developing economy like China is an intellectually infantile exercise. It is merely an attempt by liars to knowingly use misleading factoids to misrepresent reality. In short. A LIE.
I'm an engineer (PE) and I'm okay, I work all night and I work all day. ;)
Come to Midland. Everyone is hiring.
I just skimmed the article and didn't see this issue there but it seems to me that I have read recent articles in which U.S. engineering work has been transferred abroad. If this is a real trend, then why would Americans be interested in training for a job that is just going to be outsourced abroad? Makes no sense to me.
Seems a straightforward conclusion. Even if we are current, and maintaining an adequate balance today...we could be looking at a demographic Graying problem...i.e., an implosion of domestic...and loyal U.S.... talent when that bulge of residual engineers and scientists retire.
Gee Johnnie, what a (((yawn))) clever putdown...
but do you ever offer any substantive commentary?
Stop subsidizing the education of lawyers, business majors, political science majors, and psychology majors.
My interpretation of the article was that they were saying the comparisions are NOT equal, and in fact kind of false.
I.E. a engineering degree in china or india is more likely less then the US standard, and that would mean that india and chinas numbers are inflated, more over, that the idea of a big gap is a myth being perpetuated.
If you think that is a lie, then feel free to correct them on it with specifics.
FWIT, I've been saying for a few years, that the comparisions between us and them are bull, and the numbers being tossed around, inflated and rigged.
The MSM always reports everything correctly, as this article demonstrates, therefore it would be silly of you to disbelieve that all our engineering jobs are being outsourced.
True, China and India each graduate more engineers by far than the US. They are also beginning to catch up in patents for new inventions. It is just a matter of time. But, the other side of the coin says that there is no shortage of engineers and scientists in the US. Many graduates of science or engineering programs do something else for a living: the real money is elsewhere.
Here, here! If we would favor those professions that actually contribute to the well-being of the country, we would be in much better shape. Yes, there are good lawyers, business major, etc., who do contribute, but a lot of those degrees are awarded to leeches on society.
At the risk of inviting additional flames, I'd like to see more emphasis in grades 1-12 on math and science and educating our most gifted students and less emphasis on bilingual, remedial, and special education. Yes, I think we should educate all of our children. The problem is that a disproportionate amount is spent in places where it will never pay off. In my district, the single biggest line item is for bilingual services. Imagine if that money were spent on chem labs, etc. In fact, just using it to reduce class size would go a LONG way toward helping ALL kids.
I think you should also factor in the relative rate of cheating known to be a scandal in the universities in China. How good are they really is a serious question.
The gap might be nonexistent, for now, or it might be real.. But it never hurts to reexamine your own situation, and question it.
The price of liberty, is eternal vigilance.
Seems like a lot of people, like MNJohnnie just can't stand to pay that price...the notion that we have to address a problem hurts their brains...
Several things worth mentioning.
1. Quantity is not the same as quality. I'd certainly like to see more engineer and scientists in the US, but until we know the skill relative skill levels, comparing numbers doesn't show the whole picture. One advantage that we have here, IMO, is that our engineers are generally more innovative and creative. I think that's because our culture encourages it much more than the Chinese culture where students are encouraged to conform.
2. That said, I fear that the general quality of eng/sci grads here may be slipping. The reason is that many of our best and brightest are smart enough to look at the job market and see that a career in engineering or science tops out pretty quickly. The big money is made by the MBA's who exploit the engineers and the lawyers who sue them.
Another "gem" of genius from this stupid congress critter.
1. We have already made the investment, and developed the best University system in the world......and it attracted the best and brightest technical folks from all over the world...
2. We are slowly destroying our University system, by turning it over to the lunatic left to administer..
3. From my 37 year career with a major HIGH technology corporation --- I'm was not impressed with the ability of "engineers" from either India or China... I'm certain with time - they will improve.
4. The best way to encourage our own youth to go into Engineering, is to convince them there will be a NEED for their services and the income will justify the effort..
Semper Fi
Man, that is a wicked tag line....
I'm not sure if we know each other but...
My father is a former engineer, my mother a former lawyer, and I am an MBA.
LOL.
Go figure (for what its worth, my father would probably agree with you on the MBA part).
Faculty Leaders:
Dr.Gary Gereffi
Vivek Wadhwa
Primary Student Researchers:
Ben Rissing,Kiran Kalakuntla,
Soomi Cheong,Qi Weng,
Nishanth Lingamneni
www.soc.duke.edu/resources/public_sociology/duke_outsourcing.pdf
The number of graduates is rising rapidly in China. With their estimates for 4-year Bachelor's of 137,437 for the US and 351,537 for China in 2004, there does not seem to be a cause for complacency. While a lack of English language skills may mean that the Chinese engineers can't be used for outsourcing directly, they can be effectively used in China under a cadre of US-trained engineers and managers.
India appears to be strong only in computer science and information technology, not in other engineering areas.
Lastly, a lot of their argument hinges on Indian and Chinese 3-year degrees being equivalent to our associates degrees from community colleges and technical schools. I'm not so sure, since the level of mathematics and science education in secondary schools in India and China is likely to be the equivalent of a full year ahead of the US.
Speaking as an electrical engineer, IMHO its a societal thing. American society values occupations that manage and redistribute wealth but not those who create wealth. Lawyers, and brokers are deitified but engineers, designers, and the trades are seen as "geeky."
Its mainly an Anglosphere thing. US, Canada, Australia, UK, NZ. For instance lawyers just do not have that much status in the rest of the world. There are 1,000,000 lawyers in the US which is about 70% of the worlds supply for a nation with about 25% of the worlds economy.
Germany and Japan are the opposite. Engineering and design are the elite jobs there and it shows. BMW and Sony anyone? Siemens and Matsushima?
China and India also value design and engineering and it shows.
There is one thing that will keep the US on top. Creativity. We are the most creative in the world.
You reap what you sow.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.