Gang rapist claims right to assault

Sydney Morning Herald (Australia) ^ | December 10, 2005 | Natasha Wallace

[Mount Athos]

THE eldest of four Pakistani gang rapist brothers has admitted lying at trial and apologised to his victims but said he thought he had a right to rape the "promiscuous" teenage girls.

MSK, 27, told the NSW Supreme Court yesterday that this was because the girls did not wear headscarves, were drinking alcohol and were unaccompanied when they went to his Ashfield home. MSK also blamed his intoxication, "cultural beliefs" and an undiagnosed mental disorder.

He and his brothers MAK, 25, MRK, 21, and MMK, 19 - who cannot be named for legal reasons - are serving between 10 and 22 years for raping two girls in 2002. All except MRK are yet to be sentenced for several other rapes.

Yesterday evidence was being heard on a sentence for MSK for the rapes of two more girls, TW, then 14, and CH, then 13. He admitted that some of the evidence he had given at an earlier trial was fabricated, particularly that he had had consensual sex with TW and that she had coaxed him.

"It was a pretty big untruth when you said that it was consensual sex, wasn't it?" asked the Crown prosecutor, Ken McKay.

"Yes," he replied.

You chose to lie about that, correct? - Yes.

During a long apology to TW, who was in court, he stopped mid-sentence to reprimand her.

"I wish to say this to [TW], that at the time when I commit these offences I come from such a background which led me to - don't shake your head, I'm telling you something - I say now that I hurt you and I'm extremely, extremely apologetic to you and I'm, I wish to say one thing more.

"I'm serving 22 years … I'm just requesting to you that you one day may come that you realise that the person who assaulted me is in prison … and I should forgive him. I'm asking for your forgiveness." He said it was only now, since he had gained a "better understanding of Australian culture", that he knew the rapes were wrong.

He arrived in Sydney for the ninth and final time four days before committing several rapes over six months. He had planned to study medicine.

He agreed he knew the girls did not want to have sex. "[TW] said no but I go ahead with it because I believe that at the time I commit these offences, I believe that she was promiscuous …" he said. "She don't know us, I don't know her, like she was not related to us and she was not wearing any purdah … like she was not … covered her face, she was not wearing any headscarf and she started drinking with us and she was singing.

"First off, I was actually, I was not taking my medication so I was under the influence of voices and secondly I believe at the time when I commit these offences that she had no right to say no."

Mr McKay said the voices excuse was a last-ditch strategy to avoid justice. "You wanted to hurt and terrorise these girls and you did that. You used acts of sexual intercourse on them."

The matter was adjourned until next Friday.

[grey_whiskers]

Hmm, Nov. 15, 2005.

Welcome to FR.

This crime had nothing to do with Pakistani "culture". It had to do with thugs who were caught, and then tried to justify their crimes. Just as every criminal does.

The problem is Pakistani culture insofar as it is Mooselimb, sharia-dominated, makes it far easier to commit rape with impunity, even IF the woman screams bloody murder, the standards for proof are almost impossible to meet, either physically (how many rapes are done in front of four witnesses) or socially (if you can't prove your accusation of rape, YOU get punished--talk about adding insult to injury!).

At least in Western countries, it is not "heads I win, tales you lose" against the woman; even though there are other difficulties.

Nice try, though.

Cheers!

[paulat]

If you are going to argue what you have been arguing...I suggest you change your screen name. It is demeaning.

[grey_whiskers]

Out of context Biblical quotes deleted.

OK, so you're a troll. Yawn.

[Lurker]

Mohammed was a syphilitic pedophile.

L

[grey_whiskers]

instantgratification (TROLL) wrote: And as for standing and watching during a gang rape, that happens pretty much everywhere.

He must have some sick friends...or hobbies.

[instantgratification]

In Russia, Ukraine and Belarus, rape is relatively rare. Far, far less prevalent than in North America or the UK. That is the same in Scandinavia and Denmark. It just doesn't happen. So, it does not surprise me that rapes would be carried out by foreigners.

In the Soviet period, 99% of the rapes in Kyiv (where I lived) were committed by men from the Caucasus - usually Georgians or Armenians.

Into the 1980's, in large cities, mothers used to leave babies and toddlers in carriages outside stores unattended. Same with many parts of Europe. The idea that a child could be snatched was virtually unheard of.

So yes, it could be cultural. But it has more to do with macho cultures than with Islam. Among the Muslim Minangkabau, rape is unheard of.

[grey_whiskers]

Education and understanding of the "other" is what is needed.

Where's that "Everything I needed to know about Islam I learned on 9-11" link when you need it?

Again, nice try, troll.

[grey_whiskers]

The posts I've read here are venomous, and not too different from attitudes about Jews prior to WWII.

Krystalnacht vs. 9-11.

Hmm, no difference.

At least not to a troll.

[instantgratification]

You missed the point. Which was that anyone can quote a religious text out of context.

Islam is not a "death cult" religion. And what Muslims believe about Christ is irrelevant to me as a Christian.

I suggest you go back and study some more of the Bible from your heart. Because you have missed Christ's most important lessons.

[instantgratification]

Democracy is not a Judaic-Christian concept, either.

You should read about Andalusia.

[grey_whiskers]

I suggest you go back and study some more of the Bible from your heart. Because you have missed Christ's most important lessons.

"No man comes to the Father, but through ME" comes to mind.

Or even the Golden Rule...rape being something most of us would not want to experience.

Or-since you claimed in an earlier post to be Catholic--you could try reading Hilaire Belloc's The Great Heresies and see what he says about Islam.

But trolls tend not to be very thoughtful...

[instantgratification]

The point was in response to a previous post which stated basically the same thing about Islam.

[USF]

Considering there are over one billion Muslims, and far less than 100,000 fundamentalist Muslims willing to fight the West (and of that number, less than 20,000 belong to al Qaeda), I think you have it bass ackwards.

No, you do. Go read my # 57 again, and reply to it.

Note # 54 too.

and then, when you've answered that, see my questions #1-6 to you, from posts # 109, 111, 116 and 119.

1. Do you know what the bumiputra system is?

2. Do you know what inspires it?

3. Do you know who PAS is?

4. do you know how UMNO stays in power?

Or are you just full of hot air, quoting nations and things you know nothing about?

5. Do you know the significance of "513" in malaysia and the story behind it?

6: What do you see that is wrong with islam and what parts do you think they should change?

Please note The Danger of Bid’ah (Innovation) in your reply.

I eagerly await your reply to numbers 1-6.

[USF]

You should read about Andalusia.

You should read about the concept of the darul harb, troll.

[Fred Nerks]

What is Jihad: The Arabic word Jihad is derived from the root word Jahada (struggle). Jihad has come to mean an offensive war to be waged by Muslims against all non-Muslims to convert them to Islam on the pain of death. Jihad is enjoined on all Muslims by the Quran.

This site brings you the history of the Islamic Jihad from a neutral and factual viewpoint.

Site Map

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The Jihad against Indonesian Christians in Malaku and East Timor (1970 onwards)

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The Jihad against Nigerians (1965 onwards)

The Jihad against Canadians (2001 onwards)

The Jihad against Latin America (2003 onwards)

The Jihad against Australia (2002 onwards)

The Global Jihad today (2001 – ongoing)

The War on Terror against Jihad today (2001– ongoing

http://www.historyofjihad.org/persia.html

Pack rapes of young women in host coutries are nothing but an attempt to terrify the population into dhimmitude, the perpetrators don't think of the girls as human beings, they never apologise, they believe they have the right to rape and say so openly even in court. 'She's nothing but a slut' (because she went out at night with a girlfriend? Because she wears makeup and modern clothing?) Frankly, as an aussie, I care less about what they do to their own females. If it's truly cultural, then let them at it.
I DO OBJECT TO THE EPIDEMIC OF PACKRAPES IN OUR CAPITAL CITIES HOWEVER. ONE HOSPITAL SPOKESPERSON SAID THE NUMBER HAD REACHED EPIDEMIC PROPORTIONS.

http://www.hvk.org/articles/0104/64.html

http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2002/1202/crime/bellil.htm

WHAT IS THIS? jihad against our young women?

[USF]

Re my # 54 # 57 again... re-read them. Once again, I ask you if you just full of hot air, quoting nations and things you know nothing about?

See my questions #1-6 to you, from posts # 109, 111, 116 and 119.

1. Do you know what the bumiputra system is?

2. Do you know what inspires it?

3. Do you know who PAS is?

4. do you know how UMNO stays in power?

Or are you just full of hot air, quoting nations and things you know nothing about?

5. Do you know the significance of "513" in malaysia and the story behind it?

6: What do you see that is wrong with islam and what parts do you think they should change?

Please note The Danger of Bid’ah (Innovation) in your reply.

I eagerly await your reply to numbers 1-6.

And then you may want to address my questions to you regarding islamophobia.

[Mount Athos]

As an Amnesty International activist

That goes a very long way towards explaining why so you have so many misconceptions and incorrect facts. Welcome to FR, it is good that you are here to learn.

None of the terrorists who were drinking, or living openly with women were devoted to Islam.

This is again, utterly false. Read the diaries and letters of the islamist september 11th terrorists, with extensive exhortations to the koran, full of promise of the 72 virgin afterlife. They were absolutely islamist, and they drank alcohol.

There is a difference between a terrorist and an Islamist.

99% of the time today, there is no difference whatsoever, they are one and the same. The overwhelming majority of terrorists are islamist.

And, I never stated ONLY men face the death penalty.

Yes you did! Look at post #23, and your response in #27. When asked point blank whether it is the woman or man who faced the death penalty in rape cases, you only replied that men face the death penalty. That was the entirety of your misleading response. A dishonest half truth at best. Only when caught in this error did you repeat the caveats others had pointed out -- the harsh reality that women in Muslim countries face the death penalty for complaining about rape. Yet you incredibly say Muslim countries are on the cutting edge of womens rights. The cutting edge women face in muslim countries is gang rape at knife point.

Four witnesses are required to prove adultery by a woman against a man under sharia.

You are weaseling out of what you originally said, nice try. You had falsely claimed that four men are not required to prove rape by a woman against a man. Your exact words were, " No - The four witnesses are required to prove adultery, not rape." This wrong -- yet another falsehood you are perpetuating here. See post 99 for absolute proof that you are incorrect on this point.

I am very aware of the fact that where sharia is law, women do face the death penalty for adultery - even if they are raped.

Then why your misleading propagandist half truth suggestions that only men face the death penalty? (post #23 and 27) Though you know better, you are quite content to leave false positive impressions of islamic countries, and only back down with appropriate caveats with faced with an educated audience who knows the falseness of your claims.

[instantgratification]

Wrong. Four witnesses are required to prove adultery. It is the only crime in Islam, including Hadd crimes, which requires four witnesses.

[instantgratification]

I am happy to hear that - not the violence, just that it doesn't happen where you live.

There is a trial right now in my city where 3 men (1 juvy) are on trial for gang rape (and murder) of a 14 year old girl (and none of the perpetrators is a Muslim). And, I live in a fairly safe city.

[instantgratification]

One in five people on the planet is Muslim.

Care to prove where every one of them is a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer? Even in the Arab world, one of the top five concerns of their populations (after unemployment, healthcare, and the corruption of their leaders) is terrorism.