Posted on 12/09/2005 2:52:39 PM PST by Mount Athos
THE eldest of four Pakistani gang rapist brothers has admitted lying at trial and apologised to his victims but said he thought he had a right to rape the "promiscuous" teenage girls.
MSK, 27, told the NSW Supreme Court yesterday that this was because the girls did not wear headscarves, were drinking alcohol and were unaccompanied when they went to his Ashfield home. MSK also blamed his intoxication, "cultural beliefs" and an undiagnosed mental disorder.
He and his brothers MAK, 25, MRK, 21, and MMK, 19 - who cannot be named for legal reasons - are serving between 10 and 22 years for raping two girls in 2002. All except MRK are yet to be sentenced for several other rapes.
Yesterday evidence was being heard on a sentence for MSK for the rapes of two more girls, TW, then 14, and CH, then 13. He admitted that some of the evidence he had given at an earlier trial was fabricated, particularly that he had had consensual sex with TW and that she had coaxed him.
"It was a pretty big untruth when you said that it was consensual sex, wasn't it?" asked the Crown prosecutor, Ken McKay.
"Yes," he replied.
You chose to lie about that, correct? - Yes.
During a long apology to TW, who was in court, he stopped mid-sentence to reprimand her.
"I wish to say this to [TW], that at the time when I commit these offences I come from such a background which led me to - don't shake your head, I'm telling you something - I say now that I hurt you and I'm extremely, extremely apologetic to you and I'm, I wish to say one thing more.
"I'm serving 22 years … I'm just requesting to you that you one day may come that you realise that the person who assaulted me is in prison … and I should forgive him. I'm asking for your forgiveness." He said it was only now, since he had gained a "better understanding of Australian culture", that he knew the rapes were wrong.
He arrived in Sydney for the ninth and final time four days before committing several rapes over six months. He had planned to study medicine.
He agreed he knew the girls did not want to have sex. "[TW] said no but I go ahead with it because I believe that at the time I commit these offences, I believe that she was promiscuous …" he said. "She don't know us, I don't know her, like she was not related to us and she was not wearing any purdah … like she was not … covered her face, she was not wearing any headscarf and she started drinking with us and she was singing.
"First off, I was actually, I was not taking my medication so I was under the influence of voices and secondly I believe at the time when I commit these offences that she had no right to say no."
Mr McKay said the voices excuse was a last-ditch strategy to avoid justice. "You wanted to hurt and terrorise these girls and you did that. You used acts of sexual intercourse on them."
The matter was adjourned until next Friday.
1. Surprised?
2. Shocked and dismayed.
3. Horrified?
4. None of the above...
Or:
5. LALALALALALALA I can't hear you. Islam is a religion of peace and Mohammed was a man of peace, Islam is a religion of peace and Mohammed was a man of peace, Islam is a religion of peace and Mohammed was a man of peace...
Ever hear of Turkey? Malaysia?
Most Muslim nations which are now experiencing social upheaval were either conquered and created by Western powers (most Arab nations, Indonesia, most African Muslim populations) or are supported by Wahhibists (Kosovo, Bosnia, Chechnya).
The problem is not Islam. It is a mix of fundamentalism and oppression.
And the story quoted to which I responde, Einstein, was from 1300 years ago.
No, I am not Muslim. I am an Orthodox Christian. Of course, the fact that the Orthodox Church has existed for 2,000 some years means nothing to fundamentalist Christians, who view me, as well as Catholics, as idol worshipping pagans.
Sure it's a problem. But those same problems exist in other societies as well.
Why don't they exist in the West? It has nothing to do with "Christian" values (which were ignored, if you know anything about 19th century adultery laws), but because WOMEN demanded rights.
As for sex slaves, this is not confined to Saudi Arabia. Do you know which country is the biggest trafficking point for East European sex slaves? Israel. Because they have no laws against prostitution. Including forced prostitution.
There are sex slaves throughout Europe (run by Albanian and Russian gangs), in Canada and the US (run by Russians and Chinese gangs), throughout Asia, know, and even in Africa (mostly Russian gangs).
I'm not suggesting Middle Eastern countries are great places to live. Just that the demonization appearing here is inaccurate.
Considering there are over one billion Muslims, and far less than 100,000 fundamentalist Muslims willing to fight the West (and of that number, less than 20,000 belong to al Qaeda), I think you have it bass ackwards.
Islam is where Christianity was pre WWII. They need to sort out their problems without Western interference.
Well, I'm an Aussie and you're full of it. Lies that is. Can't wait to see how you'll explain yourself out of #99.
Actually, you are mistaken.
I stated that in Pakistan, the punsihment for rape is hanging. Pakistan is run by a military junta. They have pronounced the penalty for rape. That punishment has nothing to do with Islam, nor sharia (and I noted previously that sharia calls for 100 lashes for an unmarried man found guilty of rape).
There have been several cases of hanging of rapists in both Pakistan and neighbouring Iran - the most recent in Pakistan, now under appeal, is the infamous case of a woman gang raped on the order of a village council.
And, I never stated ONLY men face the death penalty. Again, that is your assumption. As an Amnesty International activist and woman, I am very aware of the fact that where sharia is law, women do face the death penalty for adultery - even if they are raped.
So perhaps, before you begin responding, you should read my posts.
As for my comments on intoxication, you are again incorrect. None of the terrorists who were drinking, or living openly with women were devoted to Islam. There is a difference between a terrorist and an Islamist.
Four witnesses are required to prove adultery by a woman against a man under sharia. Google it.
Rape is not permissable in the Koran. And gang rape occurs in every culture. Read about Nanking. Or post WWII Berlin.
The world is not going to get rid of a billion Muslims.
What has a Malaysian ever done to you?
Wrong. Islam and oppression go hand in hand.
Ever hear of Turkey? Malaysia?
Ive been waiting for you to ask me that, and this just shows how little you really know.
Yes, I have and have written about them extensively here.
I've not only traveled extensively inthe middle east, I have lived in Malaysia as an expat dhimmi for years and was close with many well connected individuals there and have seen and heard things that I could write several books about, had I not cared about revealing information about the individuals concerned.
You quote Turkey.
Turkey is not a prime example of an islamic state. The Kemalists used a fist of iron to bash the islam out of them, ban hijabs in school and government offices, and impose western ideals and ways on them. Is iron fist rule under secular, not islamic laws, your solution for the rest fo the islamic nations?
As for malaysia. It's an apartheid state run under islamic religious apartheid. If this is your ideas of pointing your finger at a a mythical islamic shangri la, i suggest you go live there and get back to me in a few years. Make sure you go to trengannu and speak to the locals who live under sharia law.
Now my question to you is:
1. Do you know what the bumiputra system is?
2. Do you know what inspires it?
3. Do you know who PAS is?
4. do you know how UMNO stays in power?
Or are you just full of hot air, quoting nations and things you know nothing about?
I eagerly await your reply to numbers 1-4.
Yet again, missing the point.
Hint: One uses islamic laws and bigotry to their advantage.
Look up the malysian system of islmaic apartheid (bumiputra) and the get back to us when youve opened your eyes.
and in continuation to my earlier post:
5. Do you know the significance of "513" in malaysia and the story behind it?
I would say it makes me sad.
But, I lived in the USSR. I have seen a lot of evil things. Far more than any of you greenhouse babies will ever experience.
I have spent countless hours talking to Red Army soldiers who marched to Berlin and back. And even more with the survivors of Trotsky's artificial famine in Ukraine. I have listened to the stories of concentration camp victims and slave labourers, some who came back to the USSR, only to be treated as traitors, and others who, knowing their families were dead, emigrated to the West.
Education and understanding of the "other" is what is needed.
The posts I've read here are venomous, and not too different from attitudes about Jews prior to WWII.
It is ridiculous to ascribe one predominant view to a religion as diverse as Islam. Wahhibists, I do have an issue with - they are funding Islamic fundamentalism and most of the terror (with some being funded by Iran). But that has nothing to do with the majority of the world's Muslims.
As an Amnesty International activist and woman...
STOP RIGHT THERE!
AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL
External Document
AI Index: ORG 10/010/2002 (Public)
News Service No: 190
24 October 2002
Information for Journalists
Irene Khan - Biography
Irene Zubaida Khan joined Amnesty International as the organization’s seventh Secretary General in August 2001.
Taking the helm in Amnesty International as the first woman, the first Asian and the first Muslim to guide the world’s largest human rights organization, Irene brought a new perspective to the organization. As an individual, she brought experience and enthusiasm for putting people at the heart of policy.
Irene took up the leadership of Amnesty International in its 40th anniversary year as the organization began a process of change and renewal to address the complex nature of contemporary human rights violations, and confronted the challenging developments in the wake of the attacks of 11 September.
In her first year in office, Irene reformed AI’s response to crisis situations, personally leading high level missions to Pakistan during the bombing of Afghanistan, to Israel/Occupied Territories just after the Israeli occupation of Jenin, and to Colombia before the Presidential elections in May 2003. Deeply concerned about violence against women, she called for better protection of women’s human rights in meetings with President Musharraf of Pakistan, President Lahoud of Lebanon and Prime Minister Khaleda Zia of Bangladesh. She has initiated a process of consultations with women activists to design a global campaign by Amnesty International against violence on women.
Irene has been keen to draw attention to hidden human rights violations. In Australia, she drew attention to the plight of asylum seekers in detention. In Burundi, she met with victims of massacres and urged President Buyoya and other parties to the conflict to end the cycle of human rights abuse. In Bulgaria, she led a campaign to end discrimination of those suffering from mental disabilities.
Interested in working directly with people to change their lives, Irene helped to found the development organization, Concern Universal, in 1977, and began her work as a human rights activist with the International Commission of Jurists in 1979.
Irene joined the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in 1980, and worked in a variety of positions at Headquarters and in field operations to promote the international protection of refugees. From 1991-95 she was Senior Executive Officer to Mrs. Sadako Ogata, then UN High Commissioner for Refugees. She was appointed as the UNHCR Chief of Mission in India in 1995, the youngest UNHCR country representative at that time, and in 1998 headed the UNHCR Centre for Research and Documentation. She led the UNHCR team in Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia during the Kosovo crisis in 1999, and was appointed Deputy Director of International Protection later that year.
Irene studied law at the University of Manchester and Harvard Law School, specialising in public international law and human rights. She is the recipient of several academic awards, a Ford Foundation Fellowship, and the Pilkington "Woman of the Year" Award 2002.
YOUR BIAS IS CLEAR. THANK YOU. PLEASE DO NOT ADDRESS ME AGAIN. EVER.
Yes, you are absolutey right.
I stand corrected.
Sorry, I'm not following the reference there.
Cheers!
Pre WWII? Surely you jest!
And how do you think an islamic reformation is possible if one does not examine whats inherently wrong with islam in the first place?
question #6: What do you see that is wrong with islam and what parts do you think they should change?
Please note The Danger of Bid’ah (Innovation) in your reply.
We cannot know if it is "beyond rare" unless we know how many women are raped.
I haven't studied this in Muslim nations, and I suspect it's difficult in any event, given the stigma rape carries (and the danger of an honour killing).
I do know that in North America, only 1 in 10 rapes are reported to the police.
"Education and understanding of the "other" is what is needed."
I suggest you tell that to the muslim secretary general of Amnesty International and she can pass that on to the muslims who are gang raping our young girls in Sydney.
Ive done the same in islamic nations... seeing people (both muslim and non-muslim) whose life you hold in your hands and listen the stories of islamic butchery and oppression they tell.
So please dont piss on my shoes and tell me its raining when it comes to islam.
Ought to be sent to Singapore with drugs.
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