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Is opposition to ID based upon science or politics?
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2005/11/is_opposition_to_id_politicall_1.html#more ^

Posted on 11/17/2005 9:41:29 PM PST by truthfinder9

Lisa Anderson recently reported that:

Every major scientific organization in the United States has issued a statement opposing intelligent design as non-scientific and denying any debate over the validity of evolution.

(Kansas school board approves changes to science standards)

Anderson is a well-established reporter, so it's safe to assume her facts are correct. So, I could end this blog post right here and just say "enough said," the answer to the question posed above is "YES!" Against what other theory do science organizations release condemning press edicts? This is completely political and unscientific behavior for these "scientific" organizations.

In particular, what business does the American Society of Agronomy, Crop Science Society of America, or Soil Science Society of America have in threshing ID? Why should groups like this get involved--why can't organizations that have highly tenuous connections to ID just let the issue lie fallow? Read an exerpt from their collective statement against ID below:

Intelligent design is not a scientific discipline and should not be taught as part of the K-12 science curriculum. Intelligent design has neither the substantial research base, nor the testable hypotheses as a scientific discipline.

But it doesn't take much dowsing with ID literature to know that it does make testable predictions and it does have a research base (see also Dembski's 2003 ID FAQ).

But seriously, why do aggie science organizations care the slightest bit about ID? This opposition to ID is not scientific but has its roots in politics! What their edict didn't tell you is that they actually issued their release at the political request of the AAAS, which planted this idea in their heads with its 2002 anti-ID edict:

"Therefore Be Further It Resolved, that AAAS encourages its affiliated societies to endorse this resolution and to communicate their support to appropriate parties at the federal, state and local levels of the government."

AAAS anti-ID press release

It is clear that these agricultural organizations have have cropped all their ideas from their superiors at the AAAS who farmed out a mandate to issue anti-ID edicts. In fact, just like the AAAS edict, these subordinate edicts contain:

There are at least 70 resolutions from a broad array of scientific societies and institutions that are united on this matter. As early as 2002, the Board of Directors of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) unanimously passed a resolution critical of teaching intelligent design in public schools.

who also have produced a rich harvest of statements without discussion of the evidence. If they continue down this path of purely evidence-less political opposition, then these science organizations will reap what they sow! Science organizations will not be taken seriously when they make broad pronouncements against ID.

The soil science edict also didn't divulge that the agronomists who issued the edict probably didn't speak for everyone down on the farm. More on this can be read on this here (the original poll is viewable here).



TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: creation; design; evolution; politics; science
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To: MHalblaub

Super Brain,

The books detail a testable ID creation model. I know you think science can be explained in a couple talking points, but in the real world you have to make more of an effort.


21 posted on 11/18/2005 10:27:10 AM PST by truthfinder9
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To: Coyoteman
Well Brain,

The global flood is part of young-earth pseudoscience. Virtuall all ID proponents don't care for young-earth and its related fallacies. I know the leaders at the Darwin Fundies Institute want the world to believe ID is YECism repackaged, but if you actually read the works of ID leaders like Dembski, Behe, Ross, Johnson, Wells, et al, you'd know that they all dislike YECism.

Why the Global Flood is Not the Literal Interpretation of the Bible and Doesn't have any Scientific Evidence So keep on believing what the Darwin Fundies tell you.

22 posted on 11/18/2005 10:32:08 AM PST by truthfinder9
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To: MHalblaub
"We don't no the answers and we will never try to understand something because ID-FSM-god-aliens is the answer to all of our questions!" Boy, is your thinking shallow, this is a verbatim Darwin Fundie talking point. You Darwin Fundies have no problem saying science proves there is no God, but when other scientists say the opposite you pretend they are doing it because of a lack of understanding. Wow, no wonder people think Darwinism is a joke.
23 posted on 11/18/2005 10:37:09 AM PST by truthfinder9
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To: truthfinder9
You Darwin Fundies have no problem saying science proves there is no God

The Theory of Evolution has nothing whatsoever to say on the subject of the existence or non-existence of any deity. If you have information to the contrary, please post the relevant cite from the academic paper on Evolutionary Theory that makes this claim.

24 posted on 11/18/2005 10:43:13 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: truthfinder9
Thank you for the interesting link. I have added that to my collection.

My point was if people want "critical thinking" in schools, then everything, including some cherished religious beliefs, may be examined as well.

So keep on believing what the Darwin Fundies tell you.

What do you mean? I am one of those Fundies. I did human osteology and fossil man as two of four fields for my Ph.D. exams.

25 posted on 11/18/2005 10:44:01 AM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: clee1
How about a touch of both?

Intelligent Evolution by Design.

26 posted on 11/18/2005 10:46:48 AM PST by N. Theknow (Kennedys - Can't drive, can't fly, can't ski, can't skipper a boat - But they know what's best.)
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To: RogueIsland
The Theory of Evolution has nothing whatsoever to say on the subject of the existence or non-existence of any deity.

Then why do Darwin Fundie Leaders like Dawkins and Eugenie Scott constantly use evolution to support their anti-god beliefs? And since when are academic papers the decide all?

Most scientific papers are probably wrong

27 posted on 11/18/2005 10:54:32 AM PST by truthfinder9
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To: blowfish

So what does Evolution anticipate? What does it predict is coming next, you know, after man?


28 posted on 11/18/2005 12:31:25 PM PST by dervish (no excuse s)
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To: truthfinder9
"Super Brain,

The books detail a testable ID creation model. I know you think science can be explained in a couple talking points, but in the real world you have to make more of an effort.
"


I read very short descriptions of string theory, theory of general relativity and theory of quantum mechanics. You won't understand the whole thing through these summaries but you know the main declaration of these theories even if you won't understand the meaning. But there are some really thick books you can read about these topics.

Your are not able to summarize a testable prediction out of a book?

"Super Brain"!
29 posted on 11/23/2005 3:01:31 AM PST by MHalblaub (Tell me in four more years (No, I did not vote for Kerry))
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To: truthfinder9
"Against what other theory do science organizations release condemning press edicts?"

The "debate" stops right here. ID is not a theory, it is a hypothesis.

30 posted on 11/23/2005 3:03:18 AM PST by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
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To: truthfinder9
"Boy, is your thinking shallow, this is a verbatim Darwin Fundie talking point."

It's not only a Darwin Fundie position, it's a Science Fundie position.


"You Darwin Fundies have no problem saying science proves there is no God, but when other scientists say the opposite you pretend they are doing it because of a lack of understanding."

Science doesn't follow the hubris of trying to explain when and how god acts. Therefore science excludes any kind of supernatural beings as a useful answer for science until science is able to predict the will of a supernatural being.

When you throw a stone into water science can give you the answers about how the stone will fly in the air, what kind of waves the impact will create and how fast the stone will sink to the ground. Science will never try to explain an angel passing by catching the stone while flying and carrying it away to an island.
31 posted on 11/23/2005 3:15:29 AM PST by MHalblaub (Tell me in four more years (No, I did not vote for Kerry))
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To: truthfinder9
Every major scientific organization in the United States has issued a statement opposing intelligent design as non-scientific and denying any debate over the validity of evolution.

Every major scientific organization in the United States believes that the Earth revolves around the Sun. Is that political too?

32 posted on 11/23/2005 3:24:11 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
Every major scientific organization in the United States believes that the Earth revolves around the Sun. Is that political too?

Those heliocentrists are Nazis who are stifling academic freedom! A bunch of Copernicus-worshiping Marxists the lot of them! And God-hating atheists to boot!

33 posted on 11/23/2005 4:11:37 AM PST by RogueIsland
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