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Santorum: Don't put intelligent design in classroom
Beaver County Times & Allegheny Times ^ | 11/13/5 | Bill Vidonic

Posted on 11/13/2005 3:49:41 PM PST by Crackingham

U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum said Saturday that he doesn't believe that intelligent design belongs in the science classroom. Santorum's comments to The Times are a shift from his position of several years ago, when he wrote in a Washington Times editorial that intelligent design is a "legitimate scientific theory that should be taught in the classroom."

But on Saturday, the Republican said that, "Science leads you where it leads you."

Santorum was in Beaver Falls to present Geneva College President Kenneth A. Smith with a $1.345 million check from federal funds for renovations that include the straightening and relocation of Route 18 through campus.

Santorum's comments about intelligent design come at a time when the belief that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power, an alternative to the theory of evolution, has come under fire on several fronts.

A federal trial just wrapped up in which eight families sued Dover Area School District in eastern Pennsylvania. The district's school board members tried to introduce teaching intelligent design into the classroom, but the families said the policy violated the constitutional separation of church and state. No ruling has been issued on the trial, but Tuesday, all eight Dover School Board members up for re-election were ousted by voters, leading to a fiery tirade by religious broadcaster Pat Robertson.

Robertson warned residents, "If there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God, you just rejected him from your city."

Santorum said flatly Saturday, "I disagree. I don't believe God abandons people," and said he has not spoken to Robertson about his comments.

Though Santorum said he believes that intelligent design is "a legitimate issue," he doesn't believe it should be taught in the classroom, adding that he had concerns about some parts of the theory.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: 109th; creationism; crevolist; evilution; evolution; goddoodit; havemercyonusohlord; intelligentdesign; monkeygod; santorum; scienceeducation
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To: Fruitbat

"When did Santorum lower his britches to get his onions pruned!"

Probably right about the time he realized there will be exactly ZERO conservatives working for him in his next election. Though I'm sure a few self-styled conservatives will immediately pop up to claim otherwise.

The sad thing is I'm not even an aficionado of ID, but he did advocate it before and now he's flipping. I would rather elect a consistent, obvious lefty than a GOP waffler who'll screw you when you least expect it and need them on your side. At least with the lefty you know to keep your guard up, and at least with the lefty you will eventually get to nominate a conservative after the lefty embarrasses themselves. With guys like this, you're thinking you've got the votes, and then whammo, you get a Bowie to the dorsal.


81 posted on 11/13/2005 5:02:36 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (Let O'Connor Go Home! Hasn't She Suffered Enough? Hasn't The CONSTITUTION Suffered Enough?)
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To: ICE-FLYER

"You would have to call the founders that because they did not see God in the classroom as an enemy to Science and that evidence is pleantiful."


Yeah, the founders also thought that blacks were 3/5 of a man, women had zero rights to anything, and one (Jefferson) even believed that the 'lost tribe of Israel' would be found in the newly-acquired Louisiana Purchase, giving specific instructions to Meriwether Lewis on how to handle them if Lewis & Clark found them.

I.E. Not everything the Founders did was necessarily correct nor above scrutiny.


82 posted on 11/13/2005 5:02:53 PM PST by Blzbba (For a man who does not know to which port he is sailing, no wind is favorable - Seneca)
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To: DoughtyOne
Are you aware that no scientific theory is ever proven?

Just asking.

83 posted on 11/13/2005 5:03:01 PM PST by Gumlegs
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To: PatrickHenry

ROFLMAO! Saved this post BUMP!


84 posted on 11/13/2005 5:04:14 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (Let O'Connor Go Home! Hasn't She Suffered Enough? Hasn't The CONSTITUTION Suffered Enough?)
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To: sinkspur
The Old Testament is not a reflection of Christian attitudes, and should not be presented as such. Jesus brought a new way of living.

He indeed brought a new convenant, but did not change what God was hoping for, nor his judgment.

Matthew 5:17-18

17. Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil. 18. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.

And for sure, the love of Christ for sinners is truly a grace, that the second chance is always there for those who repent. But don't forget his words in Luke, 24 v. 44. And he said unto them, These are my words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must needs be fulfilled, which are written in the law of Moses, and the prophets, and the psalms, concerning me. 45. Then opened he their mind, that they might understand the scriptures; 46. and he said unto them, Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer, and rise again from the dead the third day; 47. and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name unto all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48. Ye are witnesses of these things.

Anyways, special protections in this material plane certainly can be withdrawn (abandonment) without any particular abandoning of hope for the miscreant's souls. Up to the day they expire, they have an opportunity for repentance. But they don't need special perquisites of divine protection up to that point....nor are they entitled to such.

85 posted on 11/13/2005 5:04:25 PM PST by Paul Ross ("The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the govt and I'm here to help)
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To: Rudder

No, you're having a hard time accepting that absent proof, the evidence is inconclusive. I do understand the terms you guys would like to limit this to. As I said to another person, I don't blame you.

You know that the evidence is not conclusive. I know the evidence is not conclusive. Why do you folks have such a hard time admitting what we all know?


86 posted on 11/13/2005 5:05:01 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: Rudder

"I accept Christ based upon spiritual faith. Has it been proven that Christ was the son of God? No.

I accept God as an article of spiritual faith. Has it been proven that God exists? No.

Science is not about faith, it is about empricial observations. You're having trouble with that concept."


How refreshing! Someone who gets it and whose faith is NOT threatened by science!


87 posted on 11/13/2005 5:05:32 PM PST by Blzbba (For a man who does not know to which port he is sailing, no wind is favorable - Seneca)
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To: Malacoda

Well it doesn't automatically. But as I understand it, that's pretty common.


88 posted on 11/13/2005 5:06:06 PM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. Ps. 14:34)
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To: Paul Ross
Darwinian origin is in fact pure religion

Religion concerns itself with "supernatural" issues. Evolution (there is no such thing as "Darwinianism" - idiots) only concerns itself with "materialism" (the main complaint against it) so it cannot be a "religion." You guys need to study the English language more and learn the meaning of words. As it is, you don't understand what you are talking about.

89 posted on 11/13/2005 5:07:04 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: DoughtyOne
"If faith baised issues should not be taught in schools, then evolution (as it applies to the origin of man) should not be taught there either.

"If one unsustainable theory can be taught there, then all unsustainable theories should be able to be taught there.

To steal a demand from the creationist cadre: Prove that the theory of evolution is a faith based science. Prove that the ToE is unsustainable.

90 posted on 11/13/2005 5:07:16 PM PST by b_sharp (Please visit, read, and understand PatrickHenry's List-O-Links.)
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To: LogicWings
One wet iota of evidence that natural-selection Origin is "based in science." One single, tiny little bit of evidence that it is anything but fantasy. Any. . . Single . . . Bit . . .

No? I thought not.

91 posted on 11/13/2005 5:07:47 PM PST by Paul Ross ("The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the govt and I'm here to help)
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To: DoughtyOne
Belief in something that can't be proven can only be sustained based on what?

A preponderance of the evidence.

You're loathe to admit that 'evidence' is not conclusive.

No, I am not. The 'evidence' is not conclusive.

Therefore your theory cannot be proven.

Which theory?

You don't like it that I use that word.

If you mean either the word "faith" or the word "proof" then my objection to your use of them is that it's false (and inane).

I don't blame you.

I don't have anything against you either. My concern is scientific progress and the education necessary to promote it. Otherwise, I have no problem with you believing whatever makes you happy.

92 posted on 11/13/2005 5:08:28 PM PST by AntiGuv (™)
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To: LogicWings

If people really wanted freedom they would educate their own kids -- and pay for their own everything else too. But people only give lip service to freedom. No one really believes in it anymore. So what do we do? Well, I stay as far away from gov't schools as I can, for starters.


93 posted on 11/13/2005 5:09:03 PM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. Ps. 14:34)
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To: Gumlegs
Okay, if that's the argument you would like to fall back on, why do you guys go apoplectic when others wish to have intelligent design taught right along side your theory?

If your theory is not provable, it's just comical to watch as you demand that it be taught to the exclusion of other theories.

You have faith in your theory. I don't necessarily have a problem with that. What I do find objectionable is that you simply refuse to accept the falibility of your theory.
94 posted on 11/13/2005 5:11:59 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: DoughtyOne

You understand that the debate on evolution versus ID in the U.S. is being watched very carefully by the rest of the world, right?


95 posted on 11/13/2005 5:14:54 PM PST by durasell
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To: b_sharp

I don't have to prove it. Your own side admits it. Even the supporters of teaching evolution to the excusion of anything else, admit it.


96 posted on 11/13/2005 5:15:12 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: DoughtyOne
Okay, if that's the argument you would like to fall back on, why do you guys go apoplectic when others wish to have intelligent design taught right along side your theory?

Intelligent Design does not meet the requirements set forth for an explanation to be considered "theory".
97 posted on 11/13/2005 5:15:16 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: ICE-FLYER
..."The 2nd law of thermodynamics had to be violated for the theory of evolution to move from idea to fact..."

Jeez-O-Pete I absolutely HATE this line when it appears. It is ABSOLUTELY incorrect to say that the theory of evolution violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics. It shows a complete lack of understanding of the 2nd law, chemistry, physics and the notion of a "closed system".

Let me enlighten you, Ice-Flyer, with a brief, and hopefully clearly understandable explanation of why this is so:

The Earth upon which we live is not a truly closed system. Gobs of Space Junk rains down on our planet. Stuff "leaks" out of our atmosphere. And and almost UNIMAGINABLE amount of energy is dumped into our planet from the Sun.

Molecules just lying around, minding their own business get positively PELTED by various forms of radiation, both from the Sun, as well as extra solar cosmic radiation. This energy allows molecules to be "kicked around" into states and configurations of a higher order and energy state. These more "complex" chemical molecules are futher subjected to bombardment, and they "climb" the ladder of stored chemical energy and complexity.

Now, If you look at this independently, you might make the mistake that the 2nd law is somehow being violated. By itself, the chemicals seem to be adding complexity and energy states all by themselves.

However, this is not the case. You see, the ENTIRE system includes the Sun as the energy source, and it indeed is running down. All our life, and for that matter, weather and geological processes ultimately rely on the Sun as a heat and power source. And the Sun is consuming VAST amounts of Hydrogen to liberate the energy to make this possible. And one day, it will run out, and the 2nd law is in no way violated.

As the Solar System in toto runs down, things will get cold and dead, and the 2nd law will be satisfied.

People do not violate the 2nd law by reproducing.

Wind does not violate the 2nd law by blowing, seemingly arising from nowhere.

You just have to find the source of the chemical/mechanical energy driving the reactions.
98 posted on 11/13/2005 5:15:27 PM PST by Rebel_Ace (Tags?!? Tags?!? We don' neeeed no stinkin' Tags!)
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To: Blzbba
the founders also thought that blacks were 3/5 of a man ...

Not really. The three-fifths clause started out as a proposal to apportion taxes among the states under the Articles of Confederation. The more population you had, the more taxes your state would pay. The South wanted to count only citizens; the North piously said they wanted to count everyone. The North offered the 3/5 clause as a compromise. It wasn't accepted.

Both sides flip-flopped during the Constitutional Convention, when, for purposes of representation in the House, a big population was an advantage. So they fell back on 3/5, for both taxation and representation.

No one was debating what a black person was worth compared to a white.

99 posted on 11/13/2005 5:15:39 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Expect no response if you're a troll, lunatic, retard, or incurable ignoramus.)
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To: LogicWings
Religion concerns itself with "supernatural" issues.

Actually the better definition [See Religious Tolerance.Org ] is as follows:

"Religion is any specific system of belief about deity, often involving rituals, a code of ethics, a philosophy of life, and a worldview." (A worldview is a set of basic, foundational beliefs concerning deity, humanity and the rest of the universe.) Thus we would consider Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Native American Spirituality, and Neopaganism to be religions. We also include Agnosticism, Atheism, Humanism, Ethical Culture, Darwininan Originism etc. as religions, because they also contain a "belief about deity" -- their belief is that they do not know whether a deity exists, or they have no knowledge of God, or they sincerely believe that God does not exist. "

100 posted on 11/13/2005 5:16:14 PM PST by Paul Ross ("The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the govt and I'm here to help)
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