Santorum: Don't put intelligent design in classroom

Beaver County Times & Allegheny Times ^ | 11/13/5 | Bill Vidonic

[Crackingham]

U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum said Saturday that he doesn't believe that intelligent design belongs in the science classroom. Santorum's comments to The Times are a shift from his position of several years ago, when he wrote in a Washington Times editorial that intelligent design is a "legitimate scientific theory that should be taught in the classroom."

But on Saturday, the Republican said that, "Science leads you where it leads you."

Santorum was in Beaver Falls to present Geneva College President Kenneth A. Smith with a $1.345 million check from federal funds for renovations that include the straightening and relocation of Route 18 through campus.

Santorum's comments about intelligent design come at a time when the belief that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power, an alternative to the theory of evolution, has come under fire on several fronts.

A federal trial just wrapped up in which eight families sued Dover Area School District in eastern Pennsylvania. The district's school board members tried to introduce teaching intelligent design into the classroom, but the families said the policy violated the constitutional separation of church and state. No ruling has been issued on the trial, but Tuesday, all eight Dover School Board members up for re-election were ousted by voters, leading to a fiery tirade by religious broadcaster Pat Robertson.

Robertson warned residents, "If there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God, you just rejected him from your city."

Santorum said flatly Saturday, "I disagree. I don't believe God abandons people," and said he has not spoken to Robertson about his comments.

Though Santorum said he believes that intelligent design is "a legitimate issue," he doesn't believe it should be taught in the classroom, adding that he had concerns about some parts of the theory.

[penowa]

I wish I could agree with you, but I can't. I KNOW the sharks are swimming around him in a very tight circle getting ready to take a bite and they will spin anything he says that they can, but in addition to some of the statements like the stuff about the war in his speech on Veteran's Day, he has made some abysmal votes lately that look like Specter (or Durbin, or Kennedy) are voting for him.

Last spring I saw a local newspaper at MD's office (Santorum is from my area) and in the A section, there were not more than 5 articles in 8 pp that were not either "trash Santorum" or "Bash Bush." I got into an argument with an old woman in the waiting room when she saw my expression over what I was reading and most in the waiting room took her side that Santorum and Bush were both lower than whale poop! I knew then that the press had been doing some heavy-duty smearing 24/7 and it had already taken hold. These were not p.o.'d conservatives, but nasty greedy old Democrat geezers on S.S. who sleep with their hands out in order to not miss a giveaway. I really think he is in such a panic that everything he does and says is making his situation worse. Apparently he thinks moving left will help him since the pro-life Democrat vote he has always gotten will go to Casey instead and he is seeking the liberal Republican vote around Philly, Specter voters. For every one of them he picks up, he will lose 2 conservative Republicans on top of those that are unable to let the Specter-Toomey thing go IMO.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"For some it is. "

Only to creationists. The ToE is a scientific theory just as every other scientific theory is. None use the supernatural as an explanation.

" As soon as ToE rejects, in principle ID, it becomes a religion in it's self."

No, it because like every other scientific theory.

Saying it is a religion till you're blue in the face will never make it one.

(BTW, why do you have this animosity towards religion?)

[CarolinaGuitarman]

" No, it because like every other scientific theory." Rather, it becomes like every other theory.

[Canard]

"The funny thing is none of the evolution radicals ever attack the Vedics as being stupid or unscientific. You have reserved these insults for Christians who disagree with you.

I doubt most Muslims believe in Darwin's Theory of Evolution , but I don't see the same arrogant desire to shove Darwin down the throats of Islamic children"

I'm sure that the Vedics and Muslims are welcome to come along and make stupid or unscientific posts and they can have some too...

[after dark]

A culture of science depends on more than just the few people who live in cities with good scientific magnet schools.

People on this thread have said that children who are taught ID should be put into remedial classes. This is religious discrimination and any school doing this needs to have its funding cut.

I know people with masters in hard sciences whose high schools only taught ID. You can come out of such an enviorment with an analytical brain.

[Dead Dog]

ToE (as a theory of creation) ie Darwinism, is directly linked to Dialectic Materialism (or Scientific Socialism) which is the core of Communism. The link is an undeniable historic fact.

[Quark2005]

It is intellectually crippling, just as it was when the old Soviet Union demanded all scientific papers adhere to Dialectic Materialism.

The Soviets under Stalin also rejected Darwin's ideas as being too "Western" in favor of the flawed Lamarckian ideas of Lysenko. Russian biology research never fully recovered.

It would be a shame to see American research go the same way by casting unwarranted doubt such a successful scientific theory.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"ToE (as a theory of creation) ie Darwinism, is directly linked to Dialectic Materialism (or Scientific Socialism) which is the core of Communism. The link is an undeniable historic fact."

Horse manure. Provide some evidence for this outrageous statement.

[durasell]

Sad to say, but the cities will probably be where science will reside in the future. It'll be another one of those categories labeled "elite" and filled with "elitists."

The damage being done doesn't directly relate to teaching ID, though it might (not for certain) impact the quality of the teachers ID teaching districts attract along with the amount they receive in private grants, etc. However, more importantly, it relates to the arguments used to bring ID to the classroom. As some of the pro-evolution folks have noted many of the ID people say "just a theory" etc. in their arguments. This type of misunderstanding of science may impact the understanding of other disciplines that are based on theory.

Again, my concern lies not in whether ID is right or wrong. My concern is in the eventual consequences of the debate and the conclusion that will be reached.

[after dark]

That's just it! Devolution was never attacked by the believers in evolution as fact with the same gusto that they have attacked christian evangelicals on ID.

I personally respect Darwin , the Vedics and ID ,but the Marxists are wearing black hats for attempting to destroy the evangelicals.

[bobdsmith]

ToE (as a theory of creation) ie Darwinism, is directly linked to Dialectic Materialism (or Scientific Socialism) which is the core of Communism. The link is an undeniable historic fact.

I am bobdsmith, man of facts, and I deny it

[Rebel_Ace]

"Last I looked, it sure seemed that the typical televanglist was rakin' in a lot more than most biologists or paleontologists."

And your point is???? So you said "Last I looked,...." - so what was the comparison amount of money at an average. I'm curious to see the figures...

I don't think it's necessary to document obviously sarcastic remarks. As far as my observations go, I see more Televangelists wearing Rolexes on TV than I do biologists. My point is that organized religion has WAY MORE elements of big business activity and tax free fund raising than biology and paleontology academics.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

" I am bobdsmith, man of facts, and I deny it."

Too late, it's UNDENIABLE!

:)

[Dead Dog]

The problem were running into is ToE, assumes a random origin. However, evolution is not one theory, but a set. Many of which simply stick to what can be observed, and deductive reasoning. Others assume random origins of life, and according to Webster (def 4), is pretty easily argued as religion.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=religion&x=19&y=18

I have no problem with religion, I have a problem with the 1st amendment and public funds used to enforce the religions of Atheism and Materialism over Christianity and Judaism.

[Dead Dog]

I hope you are kidding.

[after dark]

I live in the bible belt so I know more evangelicals than you do. They are not the reason science is not being taught. The evangelicals do not have any problems with chemistry, physics, math or even biology. They just believe in ID. Many of them accept most of Darwin's Theories they just don't believe life happened independently of a creator. This is a religious belief and they should not be discouraged from seeking a rewarding career in science because they are not Marxists.

[furball4paws]

"You are right I am confused by why anyone would be so arrogant as to put a student with perfect math scores into remedial science classes because they went to a school that taught ID."

How about because they don't know any science.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"The problem were running into is ToE, assumes a random origin. However, evolution is not one theory, but a set. Many of which simply stick to what can be observed, and deductive reasoning. Others assume random origins of life, and according to Webster (def 4), is pretty easily argued as religion."

1) Evolution has nothing to do with the origins of life, never has.

2) Abiogenesis, which is the scientific study of the origins of life, not evolution, is not about *random origins*.

3) Def. 4 from your Webster's link says,

"4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith."


That is neither evolution or abiogenesis, which rely on physical evidence. Creationism and ID on the other hand ARE held with ardor and faith.

"I have no problem with religion, I have a problem with the 1st amendment and public funds used to enforce the religions of Atheism and Materialism over Christianity and Judaism."

Then you have no problem with evolution which has nothing to say about the existence or nonexistence of a deity.

[after dark]

"How about because they don't know any science."

Wow! Biology is the only science. I did not realize this. You must have gone to public school.

[editor-surveyor]

"It just means you need to be a little more careful."

So noted! (thread jumping can be mind numbing)