A very good post indeed. Thank you for the short French history course which is mostly new ground for me.
Posted on 11/06/2005 8:17:38 PM PST by quesney
November 06, 2005
I haven't written about the Paris (and now perhaps French) intifada, partly because I've been too busy and partly because it's so sad. I've been saying since the early days of Power Line that France is done-for, but seeing this evidence of the phenomenon is much more harrowing than contemplating the concept. Despite my frequent and harsh criticism of France and the French (too frequent and harsh to suit my French wife), I love the city of Paris and some aspects of French culture. The demise of that city and that culture, for all the faults of both, is tragic.
The riots in themselves signal no such demise. We had our race riots in the late 1960s. But these riots are fundamentally different. Although our rioters had reason to hate America, deep-down they didn't. Our riots came at the tail end of the great and peaceful civil rights revolution. By the time they occurred, Congress had already passed the legislation that would vastly diminish the injustices that sparked them. The movement that Martin Luther King led was profoundly pro-American. It challenged America to live up to its creed. The rioters were kids who, to the extent they claimed to be separatists, were fooling themselves and no one else. It was their impatience with the pace of integration which caused them to embrace the shock rhetoric of extreme black nationalism.
As far as I can tell, the situation in France today is nothing like that. These riots are not the tail-end of a peaceful, pro-French civil rights movement. They are a manifestation of raw hatred of France. The anti-French rhetoric is not the result of youthful hot-headedness or a desire to shock the French into living up to their creed (if what France stands for can be called that). It is, at least in part, the product of a religion with its own diametrically opposite creed. The leaders of the movement behind the riots aren't demanding that the French embrace them. Their objective is to transform France into an Islamic state. The intention is not to do away with the vestiges of slavery. At best, it is to preserve their ability to act outside of the constraints of law and western civilization. At worst, it is to terrorize the French until they convert to Islam, and to enslave those who don't convert.
France's situation may not be hopeless, but it's not easy to see the way out. The best hope may be that the U.S. succeeds in its efforts to transform the Middle East to the point that Muslims perceive themselves as having a stake in the democratic project (as American blacks did) and in the global economy. Ironically, France has done just about everything it can to undermine this effort by the U.S.
Posted by Paul at 07:12 PM
Address your answer to bnelson44, then. He is the one who is asking the question.
---But you won't have to kill all of them, just some of them.---
If you're talking about ending the present situation, I agree. It was a tremendous error not to have jumped on this real hard the third day or so. This looking like an intifada now.
I think we are all enjoying watching France go down, can't think of a country that deserves this more! Pompous as they are!
You should take into account the lack of acculturation of this very large influx of Muslims into Europe. It is not presently necessary for the majority of them to embrace any sort of global jihadist agenda for the scenario described in this blog to result.
RX for riots:
1. Seal off affected areas.
2. Announce 24 hour curfew, shoot-to-kill enforcement.
3. Position infantry fighting vehicles backed by infantry at all entrances and exits.
4. When rioters emerge, strafe with autocannon fire from helicopter gunships. Followup with rocket atacks as necessary. Rely on "shock and awe" effect to discourage rioters.
5. Send IFVs in. Clear streets with machine gun and grenade-launcer fire.
6. House to house searches. Issue photo ID cards to all residents. Set up government-controlled feeding and aid stations.
7. Continue riot suppression as necssary. Erect security fences. Process cardholders for deportation.
8. Round up and deport cardholders.
9. Bulldoze affected areas.
10. End all immigration from Muslim countries.
No, it was 88 years ago we should have let the Germans have them.
I hope that the French carefully note that the Israeli intifada started with rock-throwing youths.
Rock-throwing provoked "incidents", followed by negotiations, leading to more rock-throwing, occasional gunfire, more incidents, bombings, big peace conference with concessions, more bombings, targeted retaliation, open warfire between the Palestinian civilians, armed Palestinian militants, and the Israeli army.
Is this where France is headed?
If not, the time for France to act is now.
Are you referring to Charles Martel and the Battle of Tours 732 A.D.?
A very good post indeed. Thank you for the short French history course which is mostly new ground for me.
You're right, I was only thinking of events within my lifetime.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1517088/posts
Got That "Ooo La La, Intifada" Feeling?
Israel National News ^ | 11-06-05 | Steven Plaut
Posted on 11/06/2005 9:19:54 PM PST by Fenris6
Well, now that the French are experiencing their own intifada, we suggest that they resolve the problem using the very same plan that they have been trying for decades to impose upon Israel. Yes, comrades, it is time to implement the Land for Peace Plan, Paris-style. Here it is:
First, until this plan is implemented in full, we must insist that the French government acknowledge that there is no military or police solution to the problems of violence in its suburbs, and only through recognizing the legitimacy of the demands of the murderers and rioters outside Paris can the problems be resolved.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1517088/posts
"Yes, but you can't kill that many people in Western Europe nowadays, without throwing the whole facade of western democracy out the window and no one is willing to do that, for now. It seems these thugs can't simply be deported either. So you make a decision just as we did with our inner city problems and you start budgeting for jails to hold a lot of people"
You forget that Adolf Hitler was democratically elected. So much for western democracy.
The truth of the matter, to partially paraphrase Churchill, is that countries have interests, and they will do whatever is necessary to protect those interests. Whether that will to protect a certain interest comes from the grassroots (i.e. the people) or at the dictate of the state is mostly irrelevant. When the ocnsensus becomes "it is in our vital interests", regardless of the subject, human beings are quite capable of throwing the rules regarding democracy and Western Civilization out the window. See Hitler, above.
Right now, the French, in particular the French government, is between a rock and a hard place: squashing this rebellion is the easy part, if somewhat bloody (it can only end this way, btw), but what comes after it is doubly difficult --- returning France to a functioning, capitalist, free-market society, based upon old Western (Judeo-Christian) values.
This means chucking socialism. It means chucking the planned economy and throwing the European Union overboard.
These have been the hallmarks of Franch-ness for the last 50 years. These riots are merely an indication that France has been living in a dream world for those 50 years. The hardest part is to admit they were dreaming and return to their roots, so to speak. Such an undertaking, which equates roughly to "France for the French" will rip French society to shreds a lot faster than these Arabs will. But it will be a necessary evil.
The same could be said for Spain, Britain, Holland, etc, etc.
PS, not that i'm taking bets, but my guess is that Italy will be next. In recent years, Italy has been crawling with Albanians, who, by the way, are probably the most vicious people on the continent (and mostly Muslim).
Neville Chamberlain would be proud of you. During their meetings, Hitler repeatedly assured him that he had no designs on conquest in europe and Chamberlain, denying the evidence of his own eyes, believed him.
Vichy France might as well have been German. They certainly didn't fight the Germans.
We can't do that. Rescue by Americans would wound french pride too deeply. We must be kind and leave them to their own devices. It's the considerate thing to do.
"Knee deep" in trouble
Islam, The Alleged Religion of Peace® ( TARP™ )? Click this picture:
No, I am not exaggerating. Click the pic, go to "last," and read backwards.
If you are not informed about this stuff, you will be made sick. If you are informed, you will be made mad, all over again.
Kindly note tagline...
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