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Obstruction for What? Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.
Wall Street Journal.com ^ | 29 October, 2005 | unattributed

Posted on 10/29/2005 3:10:01 AM PDT by YaYa123

Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation took nearly two years, sent a reporter to jail, cost millions of dollars, and preoccupied some of the White House's senior officials. The fruit it has now borne is the five-count indictment of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, the Vice President's Chief of Staff--not for leaking the name of Valerie Plame to Robert Novak, which started this entire "scandal," but for contradictions between his testimony and the testimony of two or three reporters about what he told them, when he told them, and what words he used.

Mr. Fitzgerald would not comment yesterday on whether he had evidence for the perjury, obstruction of justice and false statement counts beyond the testimonies of Mr. Libby and three journalists. Instead, he noted that a criminal investigation into a "national security matter" of this sort hinged on "very fine distinctions," and that any attempt to obscure exactly who told what to whom and when was a serious matter.

(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 5countindictment; cialeak; fitzpatrick; gutless; libby; politicalhack; rove; wsj
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
Let me stipulate that if Libby intentionally lied to the GJ, he should have the book thrown at him. The key word is intentionally and the government had to prove Libby had something to hide. There isn't even underlying crime alleged in the indictment. In the normal course of events, most people charged with perjury are the ones who cover up a material fact that could get them in trouble with the law. Not here. Which is why this indictment is questionable. Making an allegation is one thing; proving it is another matter altogether.

("Denny Crane: Gun Control? For Communists. She's a liberal. Can't hunt.")

121 posted on 10/29/2005 6:02:38 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: angkor
What's to explain?

You're missing my point big time. For Fitzgerald not to be sure of Plame's CIA classified status at the time in question, at this point in the investigation, is to me, absurd.

122 posted on 10/29/2005 6:02:49 AM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: billclintonwillrotinhell
If that's the case, why did Fitzgerald go out of his way yesterday to stress that his case should not be used by critics of the Iraq war for their own political purposes.

Why did he go out of his way to accuse Libby of a crime he wasn't charged with? Why did he go out of his way to not say if Plame was covert? And why did he not clear the names of the rest of the people he hauled into his inquisition?

123 posted on 10/29/2005 6:03:10 AM PDT by pepperhead (Kennedy's float, Mary Jo's don't!)
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To: leadhead
No matter if Fitzgerald wins or loses with a Libby trial, three or four reporters (and maybe even R-U-S-S-E-R-T) will be looking for jobs at the Bodunk Gazette & Fishwrap when the defense counsel is done questioning them.

That's one silver lining here. These MSM types are going to be made to squirm. And run up big legal bills.

124 posted on 10/29/2005 6:04:14 AM PDT by wouldntbprudent
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To: billclintonwillrotinhell
I am NOT campaigning again Fitzgerald. I guess a sarcasm tag was in order. My point was that Bush in many cases is a go along to get along kind of person. He picks his fights, and this isn't one he wants to pick right now. To your general point, the law is the law. If it is a bad law, it should be changed, but not ignored. We agree on that I think. Unfortunately, laws are passed that make little sense and the law enforcement community, from police to regulators to prosecutors, and left to make sense of it all.

The frustrating part is that this approach to the law, while right, makes for an uneven playing field. If the field were level, half of the previous administration and the entire DNC leadership (plus everyone associated with Jesse Jackson) would have been charged with a crime in the last ten years. But principles are only needed when it is harder to do the right thing than the wrong thing.

125 posted on 10/29/2005 6:04:41 AM PDT by TN4Liberty (American... conservative... southern.... It doesn't get any better than this.)
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To: leadhead
No matter if Fitzgerald wins or loses with a Libby trial, three or four reporters (and maybe even R-U-S-S-E-R-T) will be looking for jobs at the Bodunk Gazette & Fishwrap when the defense counsel is done questioning them.

That's one silver lining here. These MSM types are going to be made to squirm. And run up big legal bills.

126 posted on 10/29/2005 6:05:37 AM PDT by wouldntbprudent
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To: wouldntbprudent
Fitzie can't even answer the quesion of whether Plame was a covert agent!

You're right, he literally can't under the law.

If she was legally "covert", and Fitzgerald revealed that, he'd be breaking the law.

Saying that her position was/is "classified", though, is not a breach of the law.

127 posted on 10/29/2005 6:08:43 AM PDT by angkor
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To: NittanyLion
If he couldn't accurately recall it, why didn't he say that instead of trying to answer?

Because it's entirely possible to give a wrong answer without knowing that you're giving a wrong answer - something that's entirely possible when you're talking about conversations that took place years ago.

128 posted on 10/29/2005 6:09:29 AM PDT by Senator Bedfellow (g_r)
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To: Cboldt

I agree that Libby should not lie. What makes absolutely no sense is that a lawyer would not know that. What on earth could Libby expect, he surely had to know that he would be indicted for lying?


129 posted on 10/29/2005 6:11:52 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: InterceptPoint
But was the timeline? At what point in the "investigation" was it clear that either Libby or the reporters were lying?

After all the evidence was in. And there is evidence OTHER THAN reporters' testimony, that implicates Libby in a lie.

This seems important to me since it was clear at a very early stage that Plame had been stationed in the U.S. for over 5 years and was not covered by the applicable law.

The resolution of that underlying matter is irrelevant to the question of whether or not Libby lied.

This would be a fact easily discovered by Fitzgerald and the investigation should have been over at that point.

Without Libby's lie, assuming there aren't other liars involved, the case is over. Without the lies to the GJ, there would be no bill, because 50 USC 421 et seq were not violated.

130 posted on 10/29/2005 6:13:07 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: AmericaUnited

He does know. It's implausible that he doesn't.

But he can't reveal whether Plame has or did have covert status, because that would be a violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.

Saying that Plame's position was "classified" is not a violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.

"Covert" and "classified" are two very different things under the law.


131 posted on 10/29/2005 6:13:58 AM PDT by angkor
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To: angkor

What is this about Plame living in France now? I keep reading that here on FR, but are there links that explain what she's doing there and for how long, etc.


132 posted on 10/29/2005 6:14:08 AM PDT by wouldntbprudent
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To: billclintonwillrotinhell

I agree. And, as I've said, this is one way we are different from the Rats:

If a crime was committed (perjury or whatever), I say, hang 'im high. Even though it is unfair because other people (Bubba) get off on something worse simply because of their political position. I remain committed to the rule of law and the integrity of the judicial/investigative process.

That said, note I said "IF" a crime was committed. One element of proof in perjury (besides intent) is that the lie has to be about a "material fact." So far, I don't see that.


133 posted on 10/29/2005 6:17:03 AM PDT by wouldntbprudent
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To: YaYa123

The basic thing this all comes down to is: Plame ain't worth all the fuss.


134 posted on 10/29/2005 6:18:51 AM PDT by JennysCool (Non-Y2K-Compliant)
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To: wouldntbprudent
What is this about Plame living in France now?

I suspect we've been had.

I was just looking it up, can't find any validation it's true.

I guess someone has injected bogus information into FR, and I was naive enough to believe it.

135 posted on 10/29/2005 6:20:59 AM PDT by angkor
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To: Southack
...and we still don't know where Libby's loyalties reside.

If Libby were employed by the Clinton Administration...those words would be a death sentence for Libby.

A few people William Jefferson Clinton didn't have to Pardon

136 posted on 10/29/2005 6:24:54 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (If you decide to kick the tiger in the ass...you'd better be prepared to deal with the teeth.)
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To: wouldntbprudent
What I can't understand:

BEFORE Novak printed his article, Joe and Novak talked. Joe told Novak "Leave my wife out of this". They had played musical phones. All Joe had to do was call the CIA and Novak would have been stopped.

WHY DIDN'T JOE CALL THE CIA?

He chose instead to dicker with Novak over the phone?? Doesn't make sense.

137 posted on 10/29/2005 6:26:36 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: leadhead
There was a sea change in journalism when reporters (with the blessings of their editors and publishers) were allowed to "make" the news instead of reporting it.

That is, to insinuate themselves personally into the news as major players in the cast of characters, to manufacture the news from whole cloth, and to spin the news with their own personal biases. In addition, by various dramatic tricks, to make non-news into earth-shaking news...and to do the opposite, also.

Most egregious of all is the license granted to reporters by their amoral media bosses to kick aside journalistic restraint aside in the hopes of being noticed and becoming highly-paid media "stars" and sought-after speakers on the lucrative national creamed-chicken circuit.

If Libby opts for a trial, at least some of these "stars" will be grilled and exposed for what they are, amoral bastards who don't have the public good or "freedom of the press" uppermost in their minds at all.

Leni

138 posted on 10/29/2005 6:27:42 AM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: zeebee
I heard Fitz say he does not know who the leaker was because Libby obstructed the investigation.

Wow, if Fitzie said that, he's setting the bar pretty high.

The only path to the truth on Plame was Libby?

AND, if the leak was not a crime (if Plame was not covert, etc.), then how can whatever Libby did be relevant to a "material fact" in the case?

It's like this:

Let's say "info x" is classified (covert).

It then is de-classified (no longer covert).

A SP is appointed to investigate who leaked "info x," which was not "covert" at the time it was leaked.

Since "info x" was not "covert" at the time it was leaked, no crime was committed.

A person has conversations about "info x", which at the moment is not "covert" info.

In the investigation into who leaked "info x," which was not "covert" at the time it was leaked, the person lies about who told him about "info x."

If it was not a crime to leak "info x," since it was not "covert" at the time it was leaked, WHAT CONSTITUTES A "MATERIAL FACT" IN THE INVESTIGATION?

Even if the person's lies obstruct the SP's ability to find out who leaked "info x," do those lies go to a "material fact" just because they might obstruct the SP's investigation of a non-criminal act?

Someone, tell me: how is what Libby allegedly lied about relevant to a "material fact"?

139 posted on 10/29/2005 6:28:28 AM PDT by wouldntbprudent
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To: angkor
And you still keep missing it...

He does know. It's implausible that he doesn't.

Then explain his statement: "I will confirm that her association with the CIA was classified at that time through July 2003"

But he can't reveal whether Plame has or did have covert status, because that would be a violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act. Saying that Plame's position was "classified" is not a violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.

Notice he didn't say, "I can't comment on that." He SPECIFICLY SAID HE WAS NOT SURE OF HER CLASSIFIED STATUS AT THE TIME.

140 posted on 10/29/2005 6:32:31 AM PDT by AmericaUnited
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