FBI and other(sic) shed light (SPIN ALERT)

The Oklahoma Daily (OU) ^ | October 13, 2005 | OK Daily Editorial Staff

[Casekirchen]

"The most solid info was that the FBI had interrogated the roommate and friends, which you would certainly hope that they would, but the fact of interrogation does not mean that the results were startling."

--- Depends upon the "interogation". Was it an Abu-panty's on the head type of questioning? Was it a bright light in the eyes questioning? Was it a bamboo shoots under the fingernails questioning.

The cynic in me says that it was a Monty Python, fluffy pillows type questioning.
FBI -- 'You really aren't involved in any terrorist activities or now anyone who is no do you?"
Subject -- 'No, of course not'
FBI -- 'Ok, you're free to go'


I agree that the sources for all of these 'facts' need to be verified.

[Eroteme]

Shoddy journalism indeed. This editorial engages in its own form of rumor mongering. As Coloradan notes, Rep. Cole did not confirm anything. He's repeating what the FBI told him. Or, more correcly, what he thinks he heard the FBI tell him. Then, there's a further filter: the reporter's own understanding of what Cole told her he heard from the FBI.

It's instructive to go back to what it's been reported that Rep. Cole actually said:

Mr. Cole said he also asked the agent specifically whether the FBI found the student intended to get inside the stadium.

"He said, 'We may never know. We have no evidence of a plan to do that, but we also couldn't tell you definitively he didn't try to do it and was rebuffed. We just simply don't know,' " Mr. Cole said.

We have no evidence of a plan
We just simply don't know.

Quite a different thing than what subsequent pieces try to promote. The FBI could be dancing on the head of a pin here. Having no evidence of a plan does not at all preclude them having a boatload of other damning evidence.

More Cole comment: Mr. Cole said the agent also told him the FBI found nothing indicating Mr. Hinrichs attended a mosque near his apartment.
Mr. Cole said he asked the agent specifically whether jihadist material was found in the apartment, which was widely reported on Internet sites. "He told me there was absolutely none – nothing that would suggest links to terrorist groups."

Well, which is it? "absolutely none" or "nothing that would suggest links to terrorist groups"? Two entirely different things. And it would appear to me from the context that Cole himself knew that....first saying "absolutely none", then correcting himself with the followup.

The qualifier "known terrorist group," is a loophole you could drive a truck bomb through.

[cripplecreek]

"The qualifier "known terrorist group," is a loophole you could drive a truck bomb through."


If it ain't Al Qeada it ain't terrorism. (sarc)

BTW I see from the news today that chechen non terrorist muslims have launched a series of coordinated attacks in southern Russia today.

[El Gato]

The qualifier "known terrorist group," is a loophole you could drive a truck bomb through.

Yeh it sort of implies that they know of terrorist groups in the Norman/OKC area, but maybe not all of them?

[CedarDave]

Posted by me on another thread last hour:

Bill Hemmer of Fox talking with the editor to the OU student newspaper now. Tres Savage saying that FBI and Boren spoke with reporters yesterday and it is less likely Hinrichs was involved in conspiratorial activities with Muslim radicals and more likely just a loner. Not true (he says) was finding of Muslim literature in Hinrichs apartment and Hinrichs attending the Mosque. FBI saying it will have more to say in a few weeks. Savage says its important to clear up these descrepancies and others. Finishes by saying we're "on the backside of the mountain now" contrary to what some web sites are saying.

My comment: A short, disappointing interview that supports the official story not withstanding evidence to the contrary developed and posted here.

[lastchance]

I would think one reason that Islamofascists would recruit people such as JH is that connections between the two would be very hard to find. One of the guiding principles of terrorists groups is the idea of cells. These cells are totally independent of one another and are not privy to the actions of each other. If JH ( who I believe fits the profile of someone who was ripe for recruiting) was approached it is most likley that only those who directly had contact with him would know of it.
I do not buy the lone suicide bit. Color me skeptical but the FBI does sometimes drop the ball.

[CedarDave]

Color me skeptical but the FBI does sometimes drop the ball.

Drop it or deliberately lose it where it can't be found? It appears the latter is the case here.

[laz]

Tell these hacks -- and yes, that's precisely what they are -- that they can put out this drivel until the cows come home, but they will never dissuade us from seeking the truth and understanding what the truth is. They can print an editorial every single day saying the same things over and over again, but they'll never convince us they're doing anything more than lying and covering up for terrorists. They are so pathetic and so immature that they sound like little kids sticking their tongues out at us and saying, "See? We told you there was no terrorism involved! So there! Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah!"

At this point, I'm beyond being insulted and angered by their shenanigans. I just laugh at them, at their foolishness, and at their desperation to convince us of something we know is a lie. Methinks they doth protest too much, which in itself shows they are trying to cover up the truth. And they fail to realize that the more they protest, the more that just convinces us that we are right.

[laz]

This piece of trash editorial was probably written by Alzoubi again. It seems the OU Daily is little more than a propaganda sheet for Islamists. And it seems they've made it their mission to "correct" our thinking.

Let me let you in on a little secret, OU Daily: You don't have the power to tell me what to think. Accept that, or keep printing worthless editorials I won't even waste the time to look at.

[RegulatorCountry]

"And OU President David L. Boren sat down with The Daily Wednesday to discuss the situation. He, too, confirmed that it is (and has been) widely believed by the FBI and those closest to the investigation (himself included) that several claims being perpetuated on the Internet and talk radio stations remain unfounded and false."

Key "wiggle room" words and phrases here are:

- widely believed
- several claims
- remain unfounded and false

Wide belief is not unanimous. Several claims are not all. And, it strikes me that these several claims (but not all claims) will "remain" unfounded and false so long as Boren and the FBI are able to maintain plausible deniability.

[shezza]

The conveniently forget the FACTS that have been reported that don't jive with the official story.

Darn that google cache function!

[MizSterious]

No one said she did. But she was at the game, and she has checked some things out, including whether or not there were surveillance cameras at the stadium, where they were, and where they were aimed--among many other things. She was also there when an Iranian girl told about ME men running into the stadium. The authorities themselves verified the type of explosive used (if you had bothered to read any of the threads, you'd know this). The authorities, plus the store clerk, have appeared on camera reporting about the attempted purchase of ammonium nitrate at a feed & seed store.

Next question.

[SauronOfMordor]

The spin out of OU does not match the facts.

• It is not rational for somebody to make up a huge batch of explosives, and decide "I only need a little to blow myself up with, I'll leave the rest behind in my car and room"
• It is incredibly unusual for somebody to go thru a lot of trouble to commit suicide by explosive
• TATP has a distinctive odor of acetone, according to references I've looked at. A roommate is not going to notice the smell?
• How big a room was he sharing with his roommate? It seems unlikely his roommate would fail to notice

I think the problem might be the first OKC bombing.

If the media starts going on about a bombing in OK, committed by a lilly-white student who had been quietly recruited by Islamic terrorists, people are going to start taking a look at the first OKC bombing. They are going to start taking a hard look at the Iraqis settled in OK by Bush I after the first Gulf War. They are going to look at the possibility that Clinton covered up Islamic involvement in order to smear "right wing militias"

In short, it would open a can of worms that a lot of Dems and a lot of Pubbies would rather stay closed

[spunkets]

,i>" We have provided the public with the information we know. "

So, was there shrapnel in the psycho's bomb?

[LibertyRocks]

"The "conspiracy" only requires that a single entity lie: the FBI. If the FBI lies to a US Rep, to the President of OU, and directly to the media, that would do it."

You bring up an excellent point in all of this. All of OU's SPECULATION rides on them believing the "powers that be" and dismissing all the investigating journalists outside the "system" have done.

They are in such a hurry to be proven "right" that they ignore everything to the contrary - and they say us bloggers are the ones doing that??? UGH - it disgusts me.

[LibertyRocks]

"So, was there shrapnel in the psycho's bomb?"

Obviously it has not been proven there were nails or other projectiles in the bomb. That determination obviously relies upon the FBI's investigations into this matter - and the investigation file (including the search warrant) is currently sealed upon the request of the DOJ.

There is circumstantial evidence that has been collected by reputable sources that indicates there is evidence of a metallic substance and holes on the tree by the bench. Here are some links to the available information regarding this particular point:

1.) 13 Plastic Bottles Found in Hinrichs' Car; Lots of Small, Round Holes Seen in Tree Near Bomb Site - http://tapscottscopydesk.blogspot.com/2005/10/13-plastic-bottles-found-in-hinrichs.html

2.) "No Holes" - http://acornsfromanokie.typepad.com/acorns_from_an_okie/2005/10/no_shrapnel_at_.html

3.) Rebuttal: "There ARE Holes" - http://tapscottscopydesk.blogspot.com/2005/10/there-are-holes-in-hinrichs-tree.html

BTW: Mark Tapscott is a veteran journalist and states the following in his bio on his site. "I've been a newspaper journalist most of my professional life. Now, as Director of The Heritage Foundation's Center for Media and Public Policy, I teach Computer-Assisted Research and Reporting (CARR) to journalists as a means of empowering greater independence in the media"

He is hardly a "hack" so I would tend to trust his investigative reporting on this matter over numerous other sources out there right now. He has a TON of other related entries on his blog that are first rate, IMHO.

One that stands out is the following:
10 Reasons Why a Hinrichs Terrorist Link Seems Like the Most Plausible Possible Explanation - http://tapscottscopydesk.blogspot.com/2005/10/10-reasons-why-hinrichs-terrorist-link.html

[LibertyRocks]

"In short, it would open a can of worms that a lot of Dems and a lot of Pubbies would rather stay closed"

I think you're absolutely correct about that. IMHO that would be the most compelling reason (aside from a real undercover op going on currently) that the FBI would have for concealing the information in this particular case...

[LibertyRocks]

Just wanted to point out - neither were the OU students who wrote this editorial... The rest has already been addressed by Mizsterious.

[indcons]

Ping...

Thanks to LibertyRocks for the ping and the reminder.