Posted on 10/10/2005 7:25:09 AM PDT by devane617
CNBC stated that Bank of America swithed their position on GM to "SELL". It is being mentioned that GM will follow Delphi into Chapter 11. Although GM has 38 Billion in cash and assets, it may not be enough to cover what is certain to be a huge drop in sales during the next few months. If GM files, that will be extremly bad for our economy.
If not that, then look for one of the Japanese players to try to grab up GM. Probably Nissan or Honda as I see competition issues by the SEC with a merger or acquisition by Toyota. If Nissan or Honda does gobble up GM, look for Toyota to consolidate with Ford either through a takeover or merger soon thereafter. I don't think the Europeans have liked the results of the Daimler-Benz/Chrysler consolidation and will be wary of other joint ventures/financial entanglements with American auto companies at this time.
Well said!
While we are throwing anecdotes around I can talk about my father who makes less than 40K a year... Let face it there are many problems at GM and many caused by the union, however GM refusing to get into hybrids five years ago to establish themselves, especially after what the Japanese did in the 70's/80's has to be the all time bone head example of not learning from history..
Why are Toyota, Honda, Nissan, consistantly the leading seller in the US? They make well built efficent cars. GM, FORD, etc have had the SUV market cornered. However, they never planned for a tightening gas supply. That was stupid on their part.
Delphi offered their workers 12.00 per hour for unskilled (line workers) and 19.00 for unskilled-these people have families and bills too. My husband works for GM...we hope management improves believe me.
that is 19.00 for skilled. Sorry.
My husband (GM ) says GM has to cover those pension because of the bankruptcy. Also, Delphi workers have the right to return to GM proper. This could put GM into bankruptcy as well.
It is a myth that unions are causing the demise of big corps...global trading is responsible. The trade policy penalizes American companies and rewards foreign comptetitors. Business is out break the American worker-not just the Union worker.
Because executive salaries are a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of a union contract. Even if they are overpaid, it isn't their salaries that are killing GM.
GM
Number of CEOs --> 1
Number of employees --> 317,000
You do the math.
"Because executive salaries are a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of a union contract. Even if they are overpaid, it isn't their salaries that are killing GM."
I'd agree, it's not just the fact that they're overpaid. It's the attitude. It's like DeLay saying there's no fat in the budget. Right.
So what if the CEO G.R. Wagoner makes $12,798,572 in total compensation? And I think it's safe to assume other execs within the organization are paid in line with this figure. But it's not a billion dollars, so it doesn't matter? It's easier to focus on the employees, right?
I say both are problems, (employee pay packages and executive overpayments), and addressing one without addressing the other, is folly.
Finally, and the worst part of overpaying the execs is they have no incentive to fix the company. If I'm making $12 million a year, and I can set my bonus as I see fit regardless of what the company is doing, well... get me to the country club.
The way GM deals with it's production employees is simply a smaller scale of how they treat execs. Pay packages over and above what the work is worth. No responsibility, no accountability. No incentive or push to get them to be creative, and perform beyond expectations.
GM is a mess, but a COMPLETE mess, top down. Given the scale of pay and benefits, and the influence, it would be prudent to attack the top first.
"It is a myth that unions are causing the demise of big corps..."
You realize that's heresey here, don't you? Mention a union in a thread title and you'll get 50 bash posts very quickly.
I think unions are a problem. It seems it's impossible to get an equilibrium between unions and management. One side will struggle for the upper hand and try to crush the other. Until they figure out it should be cooperative, not confrontational, unions will be a problem.
Having said that, I agree with you. I think that the playing field isn't level. And it's very complicated to try to figure out which laws and which lobby groups are killing us. It's much easier to just attack unions.
I haven't worked 40 hours for the last 25 years. Most weeks are 60+. I also haven't punched a time clock over the last 25 years either. Work stops when the results are delivered, not when the clock strikes a particular hour. The reward for those wretched hours is a larger gross income and an enormously larger tax burden than people who punch a clock. Coaching sports is a perk that clock punchers enjoy as part of their leisure time. Work responsibilities are suspended when the clock strikes the end of the appointed work hours. The leisure time and ability to walk away from the job at an appointed time are a non-monetary compensation.
My vacation hours are at max and normal accrual is suspended i.e. the company is getting a free ride by not compensating me for earned vacation time by accrual or monetary payout. I have 3 national holidays that I've deferred this year. I hope I can take some of that time off before the end of the fiscal year. It goes in the dumper otherwise. Frankly, I don't have much sympathy for people who only work a 40 hour week and have lots of time for personal activities.
I would laugh at this comment, as it is so ludicrous, but you sound like my bosses, so I wouldn't want to offend you....
"GM
Number of CEOs --> 1
Number of employees --> 317,000
You do the math."
The CEO counts as an employee, 316,999.
I'm sure you're a bright person, not sure why you'd make such an ignorant post?
First of all, your post would lead one to believe there's one "king" making $12 million, and 316,999 factory workers.
Do you think that maybe there are VPs? Directors? Managers? Do you think any of these folks are compensated in a manner commensurate with the CEO? Or do they pay the VPs $80k a year?
Do you think there are assistants, and assistant to the assistants that have no real function?
Given GM's management, they could move their operations to China tomorrow and I'd wager they still lose money. Lousy design, lousy business practices will continue, that's dictated from the top.
A little math for you:
GMU offers more than 1900 courses to GM’s 86,000 managerial, executive, professional and technical employees
That's from GM's Careers website. 86,000 non-union employees. Not all make $12 million, but that reduces the number in the union to 231,000.
A huge number to be sure, but I think that puts it more in focus.
"Frankly, I don't have much sympathy for people who only work a 40 hour week and have lots of time for personal activities."
You've made a choice. A conscious choice. You mentioned that in compensation for your efforts you have more money, and don't punch a clock. I'd be willing to bet your employment is more varied and stimulating than a factory job.
I do ok financially. I could have been wealthy, I knew the path, I knew the trade offs. I settled for a comfortable life where I could coach. Where I could see my family. I'm ok with that. And I'm ok with those who have less, but work less or vice versa.
So, rather than accept your fate, and realize their are other paths, you're bitter. Nice choice. If everyone works 60 hours, and no vacations, who coaches? An asset we don't need to worry about?
You want congratulated for your hard efforts, well, ask your family if you being missing is worth it?
You also seem to say screw anyone who doesn't take your path. From the school of "I walked to school 5 miles in the snow, uphill, both ways... and you should too"
Take a few hours off. Go see your family.
Not that I'm saying that this guy is worth it, or isn't a crook. Get a grip, you're just jealous.
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