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LIVE THREAD - German polls closed: AP: SCHROEDER DEFEATED!
SABC NEWS ^ | September 18, 2005, 08:15

Posted on 09/18/2005 12:12:37 AM PDT by alessandrofiaschi

Voting began in Germany's closely fought election today with millions of undecided voters holding the key to a result that will have major implications for economic reform in Europe.

Angela Merkel, a Christian Democrat (CDU) chancellor, is expected to emerge as Germany's first woman chancellor, displacing Gerhard Schroeder who has led Germany for the past seven years at the head of a centre-left government of Social Democrats and Greens.

A provisional result is expected to be announced in the early hours of Monday morning. The final opinion polls published on Friday gave Merkel's centre-right coalition with the liberal Free Democrats (FDP) a slim lead in a race it once dominated.

High stakes For Germany and the rest of Europe, the stakes in the election are high. Some five million Germans are out of work, the country's pensions system is in crisis, its public finances are overstretched and the economy that once drove growth in Europe is now acting as a drag on the rest of the continent.

Analysts say that if Germany succeeds in pushing through reforms, they could be a model for change in the rest of Europe. Surveys show that most Germans believe the system needs changing but they are deeply uncertain about how far the changes should go and how the burden should be shared.

Schroeder's own "Agenda 2010" reforms to welfare and labour market rules have been the most ambitious attempt to overhaul the social security system in decades. They have been attacked by the conservatives and by some commentators as not going far enough. The reforms were bitterly resented by voters. - Reuters


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Germany; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2005election; agenda; agenda2010; america; angelamerkel; bush; cdu; cducsu; chancellor; change; christiandemocrat; conservatism; conservative; conservatives; economicreform; election; europe; fdp; flattax; generalelection; germanelection; germany; haha; livethread; merkel; poll; polls; prousa; rats; schroeder; spd; usa; vote
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To: An.American.Expatriate; Michael81Dus
How much can the delayed voting in ??Dresden?? affect the outcome? It seems the only possible winners there are SPD & Links - I have a really bad feeling that this Wahlkreis will tip the scales farther . . .

IMHO not very much. The CDU/CSU has 225 seats (3 more than the SPD) and as far as I can tell the voters in Dresden cannot influence the final outcome by more than 3 seats.
And the probability that they all vote for Schroeder is rather low.

321 posted on 09/19/2005 2:34:47 AM PDT by BMCDA (Whereof we cannot speak, thereof we must be silent. -- L. Wittgenstein)
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To: BMCDA; An.American.Expatriate; Heatseeker; ukman

There should be a Grand Coalition for no longer than a year. And both parties should reform our voting system: let´s get a majority parliament. Keep the number of seats, but double the districts. With that, we wouldn´t have to large "small parties" and clear majorities.

Right now, each voter has two votes: one for the local district candidate and one for a party list in the state.
The vote in Dresden is a farce: if the CDU gets more than 40,000 state list votes, we lose one seat. So the best result would be to win the district election, and give all the state list votes to the FDP. With that, we don´t lose seats, and the SPD is far from getting another.


322 posted on 09/19/2005 2:54:50 AM PDT by Michael81Dus
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To: Michael81Dus

I've never been a fan of MMP systems anyway.


323 posted on 09/19/2005 2:59:39 AM PDT by Heatseeker ("I sort of like liberals now. They’re kind of cute when they’re shivering and afraid." - Ann Coulter)
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To: BMCDA; An.American.Expatriate; Michael81Dus; ukman
If Merkel thinks there is little support for economic reform among SPD rank-and-file voters, I think she should let Schröder be Chancellor in a grand coalition, force him to hold to his reforms, and then when he has alienated much of his base, pull out and force the next election.
324 posted on 09/19/2005 3:04:25 AM PDT by Heatseeker ("I sort of like liberals now. They’re kind of cute when they’re shivering and afraid." - Ann Coulter)
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To: Heatseeker

Did she win? Explain? I haven't followed the thread. Thanks.


325 posted on 09/19/2005 3:09:59 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar
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To: All

Luke Harding in Berlin
Monday September 19, 2005
The Guardian

Germany was plunged into uncertainty last night when the leaders of the two main parties claimed they could become chancellor after neither won a majority in the general election. The result was a blow to the conservative challenger, Angela Merkel, whose party started the campaign with a 21-point lead. Although Mrs Merkel could still become the country's new leader, she can now probably only do so as part of a "grand coalition" with Gerhard Schröder's Social Democratic party.


326 posted on 09/19/2005 3:16:09 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar
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To: Jet Jaguar
I was really just speculating - Merkel's CDU/CSU got 3 seats more than Schröder's SPD. But with Schröder insisting last night he will remain as Chancellor, he apparently intends to fight for that position, so my idea was for her to give him enough rope to hang himself. ;)
327 posted on 09/19/2005 3:20:57 AM PDT by Heatseeker ("I sort of like liberals now. They’re kind of cute when they’re shivering and afraid." - Ann Coulter)
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To: Heatseeker

Thanks, I have been at work, and not able to catch up yet on the news.


328 posted on 09/19/2005 3:22:14 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar
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To: Jet Jaguar
Here are the seat counts:
Christian Democrats/Christian Social Union (CDU/CSU): 225
Social Democrats (SPD): 222
Free Democrats (FDP): 61
Left Party: 54
Greens: 51
329 posted on 09/19/2005 3:32:01 AM PDT by Heatseeker ("I sort of like liberals now. They’re kind of cute when they’re shivering and afraid." - Ann Coulter)
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To: Heatseeker

So they have to get a coalition?


330 posted on 09/19/2005 3:39:33 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar
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To: Heatseeker

NEVER! This arrogant POS has completely lost the connection to reality and shall leave the Chancellery asap! Plus, it´s a principle of fairness that the stronger party in a coalition nominates the Chancellor.


331 posted on 09/19/2005 3:41:27 AM PDT by Michael81Dus
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To: Jet Jaguar

Yes - somehow. :)


332 posted on 09/19/2005 3:41:50 AM PDT by Heatseeker ("I sort of like liberals now. They’re kind of cute when they’re shivering and afraid." - Ann Coulter)
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To: Heatseeker

Nodding, thanks!


333 posted on 09/19/2005 3:42:32 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar
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To: alessandrofiaschi
Angela Merkel, a Christian Democrat (CDU) chancellor,...

I like her already

334 posted on 09/19/2005 3:43:29 AM PDT by airborne
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To: Michael81Dus
Well there's always the "Jamaican coalition" but how you're going to get Joschka Fischer and Guido Westerwelle into the same cabinet is beyond me. ;)
335 posted on 09/19/2005 3:47:24 AM PDT by Heatseeker ("I sort of like liberals now. They’re kind of cute when they’re shivering and afraid." - Ann Coulter)
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To: Michael81Dus
Plus, it´s a principle of fairness that the stronger party in a coalition nominates the Chancellor.

Leftists don't believe in principles unless it happens to suit thier purpose at the time - remember the minority Landesregierung (Mecklenburg??) that could only assume power with the "quiet" support of the PDS?

336 posted on 09/19/2005 5:02:37 AM PDT by An.American.Expatriate (Here's my strategy on the War against Terrorism: We win, they lose. - with apologies to R.R.)
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To: Heatseeker

Fischer already ruled out to be Minister under Chancellor Merkel.


337 posted on 09/19/2005 5:21:15 AM PDT by Michael81Dus
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To: Michael81Dus

Too bad, in a way. You could have sold tickets to the cabinet meetings. ;)


338 posted on 09/19/2005 5:35:09 AM PDT by Heatseeker ("I sort of like liberals now. They’re kind of cute when they’re shivering and afraid." - Ann Coulter)
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To: An.American.Expatriate

No, already ruled out. Although the SPD is in a coalition in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern and Berlin.

Since the SPD is so ´stur´, it looks like they want new elections. That makes a Jamaica-coalition more likely.


339 posted on 09/19/2005 5:54:48 AM PDT by Michael81Dus
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To: alessandrofiaschi
Bump for later
340 posted on 09/19/2005 5:56:22 AM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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