Top federal officials left out of loop (Well wha-da-ya know)

The Washington Times ^ | 09-05-05 | Audrey Hudson

[smoothsailing]

State and local officials did not inform top federal officials early on of the deaths and lack of food among hurricane victims in the Superdome or convention center, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said yesterday.

Mr. Chertoff said neither he nor Federal Emergency Management Agency chief Michael Brown was told of the deteriorating situation in New Orleans until Thursday night.

[RasterMaster]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1477607/posts

[omronnie]

Some how I don't think they would have been sitting and watching TV? Which leads me to the suggestion that the NEWSIES should have been commandeered to provide real-time information and assessments as they were the only ones that seemed to be able to get the information out to the public.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Which raises some questions in my mind.

1. FEMA needs some of those drone flying thingys to overfly
an area and report back LIVE data to FEMA.
(Keeps the locals HONEST!).

2. Maybe it would be helpful to prepackage a kit consisting of an AM radio, batteries for AM radio, CLOTH Diapers, MRE's, bottles of water, Medical First Aid Kit, garbage bags for sanitation and waste, a couple of 5 or 10 gallon buckets for washing or whatever, and Large Plastic Signs saying "Need Help', 'Need Insulin', 'Need Heart Medicine', 'Need Water and Food', 'Need Gas for Generator', 'Elderly Needs Rescue' and anything else I forgot.

2a. Oh yea, ICE is a biggie also, it allows you to keep the stuff in your refrig or freezer editable or a day or 2 longer !!!

These would be dropped or prepositioned for people to pick up BEFORE the hurricane. They could also be dropped into neighborhoods via helicopter AFTER the hurricane/event.

3. I live in central Fla and I was lulled into complacency
after Charlie and Francis hit last year after going right by my house at least 20 miles from the eye. When the 3rd hurricane hit (I don't remember the name, sorry, (Ivan?)), We were without anything for 4 days.

Trust me, you do not want to be there. No Elect, No Phone, No AC, No water, No Computer, No TV, NO FAN !!, Temp was above 90 Degrees and no breeze blowing. It was Miserable !!!

At least we could go to the bathroom and flush with a gal or 2 of water !!

Don't even want to think what it would be inside the house with a toilet overflowing !!!

4. If you get into your car/truck/suv and go out to find some stuff you come back with 3 or 4 roofing nails in your tires and you get to play the slow leak game!!!

5. I contribute to the Red Cross and the Salvation Army,
but sad to say I never saw any of them in the 4 days I was in need of help !! I know that they do yoman's work, but they failed me in my hour of need, but I will keep contributing to them as I have no other option to support people in need. I made out OK and I know that there were more people in more need than I.

6. The only thing I had was an AM/FM radio.
All I could get was Tampa or Orlando on AM talking about the disaster in their local area.

FEMA needs to rebrodcast on all local AM/FM stations, where relief supplies are and how to get to them, city by city.

7. FEMA needa to sit down with Wal-Mart, Cosco, Mcdonalds, Lowes, Home Depot, Publix, and determine how to get relief supplies to those parking lots.

People know where these stores are, sorry, but they do not know where the First Baptist Church of xx is located.

8. Did I mention ICE and Pets??

8a. Lots of people will not evacuate because they are afraid that wherever they land will NOT accept pets, nuff said !!

9. I am a woosee and will not probably accept my own advice.
That's why we need this to happen on a FEDERAL level.

10. Been there, done that, have the T-Shirt, and still will NOT be prepared !!

(What part of LAZY do you not understand)

[LPM1888]

Excellent analysis.

[ItsOurTimeNow]

>>I don't think there is anyone I trust anymore.<<

Amen. Government serves itself and it's cash cows first. They're not on our side.

[kabar]

9. Once FEMA's efforts were stymied by armed thugs in NO, GWB should have ordered in the Marines and 82nd Airbone to gain control of the city and enforce order at the Convention Center and the Superdome.

Chertoff and Brown are lawyers. They were more concerned about legalisms and bureaucratic turf issues. Once the scope and magnitude of this disaster was known, the federal government should not have trucked any such obstacles to getting the job done, especially saving lives. You can go back and forth as to who should request what first, but ultimately the entire government, federal/state/local, is judged by results. Let the chips fall where they may. If Bush had done that, he would have been lionized by the American public despite a hostile MSM.

[Dave S]

He shouldn't have had to get his intel from CNN. It should have come from the local officials there on the ground.

However, often local officals had no phone or radio communications with their personnel in the field. A communications breakdown. In that kind of case, FEMA should have looked to the Media for pictures of what conditions were really like. They didnt have to take the MSM's assessment of the situation but at least it gave them some clue as to what was occuring in the black hole called New Orleans. At the very least they should have been aware of what the media were calling trouble spots so when Brown or Cherfoff were on TV they wouldnt make such stupid comments as no one told us..we didnt know.

[livius]

I think one of the problems is that they were expecting the normal chain-of-command thing to happen - that is, the lower levels request the higher levels for help, the higher levels authorize it, etc. In this case, the lower levels broke down, probably to an extent unprecedented in our recent history.

People say that FEMA and Homeland Security should have been watching TV for their information! Truly ridiculous - TV is full of rumors and instant reaction things that the government couldn't do anyway. Normally, agencies would rely on officials on the ground to give them the information. However, they clearly couldn't rely on that in NO, nor could they rely on NO officials to exercise their normal law enforcement or any other functions.

There's got to be a plan in place, worked out by Congress, for when the local authority breaks down, as it did in NO in particular and LA in general.

[Dave S]

Did you think of the fact that the power was down in those areas? That it's still down most places now? Where does he plug in his tv, and should he be watching it

Chertoff is in Washington DC where the power is still on. Brown, who knows what planet he is on. The point is FEMA and the Department of HLS have huge buearacracies. They have at least one person that they can devote to watching TV. You can bet they have at least ten or twenty feeding press releases to the media from their DC headquarters. Radio communication and satellite phone from Washington DC is more reliable than local communications in New Orleans. All the more reason for someone outside the area to communicate what they see happening on TV. Looking at your other points, it seems they make the other posters point for him. Since the local officials had no reliable communications and FEMA officials were sitting outside the city waiting for a safe ride in, who are these boots on the ground? The police who had been dealing with looters and snipers for five days with little food or water themselves and little sleep. Seems like they have a little mroe on their hands than feeding intel to buearocrats.

[Caramelgal]

Agreed. Strong leadership takes bold action and sometimes rules, protocol and paperwork need to be secondary concerns.

[sweetliberty]

It just keeps getting better...or worse, depending on your perspective.

[Caramelgal]

Thanks. It gives me serious concerns about our government. Local, state and federal to deal with a terror attack using WMD’s such as a nuclear or bio weapon.

[NCLaw441]

I won't disagree with your concern, but it is easy to jump to conclusions of incompetence in this unprecedented situation. I am not prepared to say that all that could be done was not being done. In retrospect, could more have been done? Of course, had we known then what we know now much more would have been done. I suspect the mayor might even have used the school buses that now sit flooded not two miles from the Superdome.


I do understand that Gov. Blanco has YET to allow the national guard to be federalized. That is inexcusable.

[LucyJo]

"You're wrong."
======
Well, at least, my opinion differs somewhat from yours. :)

The Russian adage ("Between 'Should Be' and 'Is' many pairs of shoes are worn out.") has a lot of truth to it. Another consideration is "what the meaning of "is" is".

Staff have jobs to do as well...and while I also think all information that is accessible from the scene should be utilitized, I don't know that time would be well spent watching news coverage 24/7. Accuracy of information is an important consideration when making decisions about how to best co-ordinate and implement actions on that large of a scale. Plans for big events (even imperfect ones) are in place for a reason. Total chaos is likely to ensue without them, as was demonstrated by the mayor of NO and the governor of LA. Spontaneous responses on a smaller,as well as a larger scale require some sort of planning as demonstrated by the brave young man who "commandeered" a school bus, gathered up 70 or so people and drove them out of NO to Houston. The larger the scale the greater the complexity of the considerations.

This administration has done, and is doing, a good job in the face of the obstacles they are having to overcome to get it on track. I'm hoping the sickening way this LA disaster has been politicized is not a harbinger of things to come, but the past is prologue, as they say, and Dems do run LA - Dems who are being "advised" by Clinton folks. I'm just cynical enough to think that not all of what has occurred in LA can be blamed on incompetence. There is the CYA factor, but I'm expecting a lot of pretenses and appearances of co-operation while doing everything within their ability to obstruct and continue to blame the president as the long road to recovery and rebuilding begins. But, just like everybody else, I could be wrong. :)

I really hope I am wrong about the politicization and obstruction, but an adage I've come to associate with the Left is that "the end justifies the means", when it comes to regaining control of power, and no matter the damage or destruction in its wake.

[Dave S]

There was enough time and enough buses available to have moved 100s of thousands of folks before the hurricane struck.

Where is your proof for this. Ive seen one picture of buses. Assuming you could squeeze 40 people on each bus for a 12 hour trip it would take 2500 fully fueled buses and drivers to take 100,000 out. By all reports there were some 250,000 people left behind. That would require more than 6000 buses and drivers assuming you get the people to the busses and force them to get on board. In addition, you are talking about putting another 6000 large vehicles on highways that were already crawling due to heavy auto traffic trying to escape.

[kabar]

I think one of the problems is that they were expecting the normal chain-of-command thing to happen - that is, the lower levels request the higher levels for help, the higher levels authorize it, etc. In this case, the lower levels broke down, probably to an extent unprecedented in our recent history.

I don't know your definitions of higher and lower levels. I suspect that the lawyers took over once the Feds realized that the State and local authorities were incompetent. Instead of recommending bold action, they drafted an agreement and had Bush negotiate with Blanco. This is what caused the delays and inaction.

People say that FEMA and Homeland Security should have been watching TV for their information! Truly ridiculous - TV is full of rumors and instant reaction things that the government couldn't do anyway

True up to a point. Once there were firsthand reports on TV about the chaos at the Superdome and Convention center, something should have been done. The public sees what is happening on their TV screens and can't understand why the authorities don't do something. Any head of a government agency must be aware of what is going on in the press, including TV. For self-defense at least.

There's got to be a plan in place, worked out by Congress, for when the local authority breaks down, as it did in NO in particular and LA in general.

Plans are fine, but commonsense and flexibility must hold sway. As they say, the first casualty in war is the battle plan. Once contact is made, you need to adjust.

[Dave S]

Madison WI, from my understanding, is taking a hundred families in. This is the clincher though, they are putting them up in the very worst part of town, the Allied Drive area. It's like the ghetto of Madison. Real big of them

Are you offering them your home? How about emptying out the college there. That is one of the biggest leftist universities in the Midwest. Wouldnt hurt the country at all if it were shut down for a few years to make room for evacuees.

[WHBates]

"Do you even know what a levee board is and who actually builds and repairs these things?

Yes, and for the most part they are a waste of money because the Army Corp of Engineers and their contractors actually do the work. My be you could do a couple of google searches on these levee boards and commissions and read about their colorful history

"Look, no offense, but the only major levees in the country are built and maintained by NOLA area agencies. They are the only ones who do this work. They did finally get some help from military helicopters for heavy lift but someone still has to actually go in there to finish it up."

Thank you, but the point of the post was that at the time in question the levees had already been breached. It was time to react to the crisis. There was no way to fix things at that point. That isn't what the local ER organizations are suppose to do.

Those levees would not be fixed now if the parish workers and levee boards hadn't done it. If you'd rather pretend they should go save people with dump trucks and cranes, go ahead and believe anything you want. I guess you think FEMA was going to rebuild the levees.

You are misinformed, the Corp and its contractors are fixing the levees, organized by FEMA (from the get go). The very same Corp that cleaned up the world trade center after 9/11 organized by FEMA. Who do you think did that?

[river rat]

There are approximately 400 buses at two PHOTOGRAPHED sites, alone..

Once must assume there were additional buses owned by Churches, Catholic and Private Schools, private companies, etc.....

Make a conservative estimate for a city the size of New Orleans, that the total buses at their IMMEDIATE command in an emergency situation would have been at least 600 buses..

600 buses x ~50 passengers each = 30,000 evacuees per trip.

Allow 4 hours per round trip - to get at LEAST get them out of the hurricane impact/flood zone area -- and they had 2 day notice of IMMINENT DANGER....

2 days = 48 hours / 4 hours = 12 potential round trips.
12 trips x 30,000 evacuees per trip = 360,000 evacuees.

That's a LOT of folks moved out of the path of destruction, and OUT OF THE CITY. This doesn't even consider that the Governor could have mobilized her NG and requested Federal assistance and secured almost unlimited transportation assistance and Federal facilities to temporarily shelter the evacuees ----- BEFORE THE STORM STRUCK.

There was PLENTY of time to initially move HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS out of New Orleans and then put these valuable assets (buses) on the high ground near the Stadium and Convention center to be placed in service again AFTER the hurricane passed.. The city "fathers" didn't do that, and thousands died. The buses are STILL in flooded parking lots..

The Mayor and Governor dallied, and folks died.
Escape for MANY was available and unused.

Semper Fi