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Show Me the Science [Critique of Intelligent Design, by Daniel Dennett
New York Times ^ | August 28, 2005 | Daniel C. Dennett

Posted on 08/28/2005 2:14:36 PM PDT by AZLiberty

...

Is "intelligent design" a legitimate school of scientific thought? Is there something to it, or have these people been taken in by one of the most ingenious hoaxes in the history of science? Wouldn't such a hoax be impossible? No. Here's how it has been done.

...

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy; Technical
KEYWORDS: allcrevoallthetime; crevolist; crevorepublic; enoughalready; evolution; id; intelligentdesign; science; secularworry; walltowallcrevo; youmadeyourpointojay
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To: Cicero; Congressman Billybob; AZLiberty
Like Congressman Billybob, I also majored in science (physics at Harvard) before I decided to change to another field.

Darwin's general theory remains a hypothesis. Intelligent Design is also a hypothesis.

No. Darwin's theory of evolution is both a fact, in its observation of the fossile record, and a theory, as a coherent organization of the entire DNA, fossile, and more recent observations of species change. The entire body of knowledge is extraordinary, and the strenght of the theory, as in any scientific theory, is that it fits such a large and complex data set. The home page of Ichneumon and some of his posts provide a brief glimpse into this structure. One of his posts has more raw information than the entire output of the Discovery Institute.

Intelligent Design is first a lie; it has the same chimerical nature of voodoo or witchcraft. Indeed, they may have tried to surround it with scientific-sounding words to make it appear respectable. But, at its core, it is simply argument by assertion. To anyone truly trained in science, this is immediately apparent: the classic examle is their notion of "irreducible complexity."

I have known lots of people who took a science course or two. Then they gave it up as too difficult. That's OK. They are smart people making real contributions elsewhere. But if they cannot see through the fabrication of Intelligent Design, well, that is consistent with the fact that they only could get through a course or two.

181 posted on 08/28/2005 7:37:31 PM PDT by 2ndreconmarine
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To: WildTurkey

Cute.


182 posted on 08/28/2005 7:37:42 PM PDT by catpuppy
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To: killermosquito
I didn't say they were. But they do know something about creating things and know enough not to count on random chance to assemble a wrist watch.

And, speaking as an engineer, know that what the creos are posting is pure BS.

183 posted on 08/28/2005 7:38:02 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: catpuppy
Cute.

After observing your umpteen twisted, out-of-context post, I thought I would fire back.

184 posted on 08/28/2005 7:39:04 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: 2ndreconmarine

But it is telling that two have come here saying they dropped out of science as if that gives them more credibility.


185 posted on 08/28/2005 7:40:36 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: WildTurkey
One quote from one man does not make your case.

Perhaps not, although I should think that Dawkins is prominent enough that his comments carry some weight.

But your objections puzzle me. Do you seriously deny that evolution is often used (or I should say misused) to "prove" that God does not exist?

186 posted on 08/28/2005 7:42:10 PM PDT by Logophile
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To: WildTurkey
Many ignorant people also have that misunderstanding.

Evidently, name-calling has become a major part of evolutionist argument.

187 posted on 08/28/2005 7:42:28 PM PDT by catpuppy
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To: Logophile
But your objections puzzle me. Do you seriously deny that evolution is often used (or I should say misused) to "prove" that God does not exist?

Do you seriously deny that guns are often used (or I should say misused) to kill the innocent?

188 posted on 08/28/2005 7:43:39 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: catpuppy
Evidently, name-calling has become a major part of evolutionist argument.

You would rather we be politically correct and not speak honestly?

189 posted on 08/28/2005 7:44:31 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: Coyoteman; 2ndreconmarine

Sheesh, how come everyone gets so touchy? I don't even go
to church regularly :-). I just watched Privileged Planet and have read some really good articles that got me thinking. 'Scuse me if I offended anyone...


190 posted on 08/28/2005 7:44:55 PM PDT by DCMB (Bless GWB and all our troops)
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To: Logophile
But your objections puzzle me. Do you seriously deny that evolution is often used (or I should say misused) to "prove" that God does not exist

What I state is that this is the "wedge" issue with the creos. It is part of their operation. In thousands of posts, I have seen almost none that seek to prove there is no God based on the 'belief' in evolution but I have seen hundreds of posts from creationists claiming evolutionists are atheists and many that propose evolution is a communist, liberal plot to destroy religion.

191 posted on 08/28/2005 7:47:23 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: WildTurkey
We don't want to be subject to another set of Salem witch trials or victims of another 'crusade'.

LOL we already are -follow these threads -the lynching of the religious is in evidence as is the crusade to silence any opposition to the darwinian god...

The creos as you lovingly call them are but fodder for the evolitionist crusade...

192 posted on 08/28/2005 7:47:29 PM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: Stultis; All
"By contrast ID asserts that there are "seams" in what is explainable by natural law which must have been stitched together by the "Intelligent Designer". (Although they'll never say when or how the "stitching" occurred.)"

Some evolutionists do exactly the same thing.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1472221/posts?page=77#77

"While Einstein was a theist, everything I've seen from him indicates that he believed in a seamless continuity of natural law."

This is precisely why evolutionists must not avoid the question of origin of life.

The Origin-of-Life Prize ® site puts it this way;

"Any scientific life-origins theory must connect with "life" as we observe it (the "continuity principle"). "

193 posted on 08/28/2005 7:48:00 PM PDT by dynoman (Objectivity is the essence of intelligence. - Marylin vos Savant)
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To: 2ndreconmarine

Does the phrase "God doesn't play dice with the universe" ring any bells? It infers a deep respect for what is called "ID" on the part of Scientist Einstein.


194 posted on 08/28/2005 7:48:35 PM PDT by bvw
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To: DBeers
The creos as you lovingly call them are but fodder for the evolitionist crusade...

It is not evolution that is attacking creationism but creationism that is attacking evolution.

195 posted on 08/28/2005 7:50:40 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: microgood
"I looked this guy up. He is a hippie from the sixties generation - got his Philosphy degree in 1963 and even has a pony tail and beard. But it does not matter to the evos, they would post an OpEd by Hillary Clinton on FR if it bashed intelligent design. They also constantly defend the ACLU."

Aside from the fact that Dennet's past 'hippyness' really has no bearing on whether his information is correct, this attempt at poisoning the well of yours completely misses the point that 'Evos' follow the evidence instead of basing their opinion of the source of the information on the colour of his shorts.

196 posted on 08/28/2005 7:51:17 PM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: 2ndreconmarine
"Get through a course or two"? As Arlo Guthrie said in "Alice's Restaurant," you gotta lotta d*mn gall.... I don't want to do it again, but once upon a time I could handle third order differentials. And I was the second-ranked physics student in 1960 in Maryland, Virginia, Delaware and D.C.

Get through a course or two .... snort. I challenge you, slide rules at 20 paces.....

I'm a bad scientist because I don't agree with you? That equation is entirely reversible. And exothermic both ways. LOL.

John / Billybob

197 posted on 08/28/2005 7:51:19 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob (I'm on the road, now. Contact me at John_Armor@aya.edu.net.)
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To: WildTurkey
umpteen twisted, out-of-context post

I'll just note your lack of examples and another accusing "liar, liar" main theme in your post. It's been fun.

198 posted on 08/28/2005 7:51:51 PM PDT by catpuppy
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To: plain talk

Right. There is only one theory which is micro evolution. Its the only one with any science. Macro evolution is an extension of that and is at the center of the debate. Macro evolution concepts should be pulled from the textbooks.

I said no such thing. I said there is no such theory as "micro" evolution. Darwin did not theorize micro and macro evolution. You are proposing a "micro" theory of evolution. What is it?

199 posted on 08/28/2005 7:52:27 PM PDT by ml1954
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To: Jeff Gordon
Please enumerate a few experiments which can be used to gain insight into the validity of the ID "hypothesis."

Have you ever heard of SETI? Please enumerate a few experiments which can be used to determine if a signal originated from an intelligent source.

I am geting sick and tired of all the old evolutionist canards that pass as wisdom.

200 posted on 08/28/2005 7:53:08 PM PDT by RussP
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