Posted on 08/17/2005 7:58:48 AM PDT by Dr._Joseph_Warren
Question:
Ignoring all legal issues....
Would you care/object if your children's teacher was openly (not flaming) gay?
Would it make any difference if the gay teacher was male or female?
Would it make any difference if the gay person taught elementary, middle school or high school?
I have no problem with why you have your opinion.
My problem was with your original argument that you were not opposed to gay teachers as long as acknowledgement of their "lifestyle" was not made public.
I tried to demonstrate that you in fact could not actually achieve the standard you suggested. Normal conversation would make that "lifestyle" evident in basic, normal, eveyrday answers to all kinds of innocuous questions that students could ask.
So, my point was that you should not suggest there is ANYWAY that any gay teacher would ever meet your standard for teaching in a classroom; they can't.
So, just say they can't - no way no how - and don't pretent otherwise. That's all I am suggesting.
Then, that makes me question his research methods and his scholarship.
IMO, that says you don't think much about Dr. Spitzer and his criteria for studies. Studies that have had a huge impact on his life.
I'm sure he's a very nice man. But his scientific methodology is faulty.
Just because something has a huge impace on someone's life in no way makes that "something" correct or accurate.
That's not a very accurate description of the reclassification. But to answer your question: why would I support Spitzer when he acts in ignorance?
There are tens of thousands of ex-gays and their numbers continue to grow. That's the key here, and considering the health hazards of the homosexual lifestyle, a compassioniate society should discourage deadly homosexual behavior.
Standing United's response seemed reseasonable. Basically saying -- if I understand correctly -- "not for me." Which is his/her choice.
As I said in a previous thread, it depends on the geographic area. Obviously, in SF, where homosexuality is part of the civic, cultural and political environment, it wouldn't make a difference. Same with NYC, L.A. etc., it would be no big deal. In a town where it was a big deal, then it would be a big deal.
I had a lesbian gym teacher and hockey/lacrosse coach, in h.s. She lived with her partner, right next to the high school and had the utmost respect of all the students. We also had a gay choir teacher who lived with his partner, a few blocks from the school. He was a different case, but still was respected because he was a good teacher in many ways, and those were the days that respect was considered the "key word".
A teacher, contrary to a mortgage broker or poker player, must make daily decisions on what moral and/or historical and/or social and/or technical information they will convey to our children.
Is that in your job description?
The gay and lesbian people I've come to know over the years are usually very nice people, but they seem to be constantly on the lookout for ways to show others how completely innocuous and harmless their "lifestyle" is to society.
Gay people often go out of their way to promote and teach about other gay people, mostly in an unconscious effort to show society (and thus children) that homosexuality is something to be admired and revered.
Sorry, my friend, that is something I do not want to see in public schools.
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Then it should, but you should also question why he completely reversed his position. The toll it's taken on him personally has been great, but he holds true to his new position that gays can go straight. And that speaks volumes.
I have no problem with "in the closet" gays around my children. Your sex life is none of my children's business, nor is it your right to shape the sexual identity of my children.
Yes
Yes
yes
No matter how hard they try, they will never separate their politics from the classroom. No matter how hard they say they try, they will never quit cruising the class for victims.
I agree that there is no need to be openly gay around children, but I wonder if we all mean the same thing in the term "openly gay". I have a friend whose father did not allow him to watch Mr. Rogers when he was little because the father considered Mr. Rogers to be effeminate and not a proper role model. I think some people interpret openly gay as being quiet and passive like Mr. Rogers. To some they interpret the other extreme--the "we're here, we're queer, get used it" crowd.
So my question is, are we all talking about the same thing and actually having a meaningful discussion, or are we all just barking at the moon?
The Mr. Rogers thing is one of the oddest things I've ever heard...made it worth logging on today.
"...why would I support Spitzer when he acts in ignorance?"
False assumption.
That's about the most offensive statement you could make to an ex-gay. You apparently don't know any ex-gays.
You can't turn a gay person straight, any more than you can turn a straight person gay.
Dr. Spitzer completely disagrees with you, as do a growing number of therapists.
There are, however, people who are attracted to both sexes, in various degrees.
Indeed. Yet according to The New Gay Teenager, you won't be able to tell the difference between bisexuals and gays.
Tell me- how would you classify a woman who spends her college years sexually involved only with other women, but who ends up marrying a man and remaining faithful to him?
I might use the term they use for themselves (LUGs). That is, Lesbian Until Graduation. Or I might state that sexuality is fluid and given the right conditions can flow from heterosexual to homosexual. Yet given the right help, can also flow from homosexual to heterosexual.
Because the number of ex-gays continue to grow it would appear you are incorrect. Besides that, even Simon LeVay admitted the reclassification was due to gay activism in his book Queer Science.
That doesn't change reality.
You apparently don't know any ex-gays.
Of course not, since there is no such thing as an "ex-gay."
Indeed. Yet according to The New Gay Teenager, you won't be able to tell the difference between bisexuals and gays.
Sure you can. It's simply a question of who they are sexually attracted to.
Sure you can. It's simply a question of who they are sexually attracted to.
Homosexual author Rich Savin-Williams disagrees with you:
The "New Gay Teenager" will be a person who can be attracted to both girls and boys and have sexual relationships with both sexes without guilt. The "New Gay Teenager," then is basically a pansexual or bisexual who rejects all gender categories.All the evidence points to sexuality being fluid, with environment being the major factor on which way it flows.
And since children are more confused about their sexuality when they're younger, and less confused as they get older, we should be very careful with any social experiments we run, especially since the homosexual lifestyle is deadly.
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