Posted on 08/02/2005 1:28:25 PM PDT by mitchbert
Breaking News from CFRB 1010AM News Radio - Toronto
Airliner on fire on the ground at Toronto Pearson International Airport (YYZ). Unclear as to cause. Announcers asking for updates from motorists in the region on HWY 401. Report says great deal of smoke. I have to go into a meeting shortly but I'll listen for updates as long as I can.
Of course, you're right. It was daylight and from an airplane you get an excellent view of good-sized thunderstorms ahead of you, from many miles away (you see the thunderclouds that push way above any other clouds around). [Unless, of course, they were samll embedded TS's, but they aren't too likely this time of the year.]
First, amazing that everyone seems to have got off okay. Wow.
The "valley" is actually a ravine with a creek of some size running through it. I'm not sure but it may be that the plane didn't bury itself all the way in...if so a good thing. We'll see. For context check out airdiaster.com and look for records about an Air Canada plane (I believe a DC-9) that went into the same ravine in the 1970's.
I want that cabin crew whenever I fly. They did their job with heroic distinction, IMHO, and lives were saved.
"...there is bound to be some government employee who states emphatically that it is NOT terrorism..."
TWA 800 comes to mind - terrorism? Or just an errant missle from a US Navy ship?
"73 posts before someone slips in Wild Ass Speculation about terrorism..."
It took 216 posts for someone to say '...Airbus sucks..."!
"But what if it's the pilot's time?!"
Wasn't his time...reports say pilot got out, taken to hospital. :)
"...hence the TWA "missle" theory..."
There was a missle - only question is whose...
Boy, are we bad today!
I wish my flights had been smoother. I noticed the wing "motion" because the cabin was bouncing/shivering (at a pretty regular rate) too.
I was happy when my brother suggested flying into Midway on Southwest [Boeing] rather than into O'Hare on American [Airbus]
And I believe DLH is still flying a fair number of 737s, not sure if any of them are NGs though.
Air France flies a little bit of everything--Boeing, Airbus, and I think they have some EMB-145s as well?
}:-)4
"It may turn out that the plane splitting in two was a lucky break..."
I can't imagine the reaction of the ones sitting in the row where the break occurred.
LOLOL!
yeah, I guess there should be some kind of support group for husbands and wives who have to live with "political-Internet-website-news-junkies"!
"I watched both Airplane! movies, does that count?"
I think that makes you an expert on ship disasters.
That'd be the 405 and it is just a stone's throw from the runway threshold. Interstate 5 is a few exits north on the 55. One of our resident pilots may be able to verify this but, the approach from the North is nice and easy (grew up in Anaheim Hills, right underneath it), but the takeoff is a quick jump up to a couple-a-three thousand feet or so, then a quick back-off on the throttle and a few minutes just holding altitude until you get out over the Pacific where you can pour on the coal and climb to cruising altitude for your flight.
All of that machination is just to appease the snot-nosed boys and girls in Newport Beach who insisted on expanding their community Northward and encroach upon the airport whereupon, in classic upper-class-snobbery-hacking-up-a-hairball fashion, they proceded to snort, howl and rant like a tornado full of bowling balls about the intolerable noise from the aircraft; none of which at any time exceded the racket that they, themselves, produced in their nursery-school tantrums.
My experience with Air France was that I flew from Toronto to Paris, and after checking on the internet and phone, found that the plane was 2 hours late. They always say to show up 2 hours before flight time, so I modified my schedule and showed up 2 hours before the revised flight time. They had given my seats away, and said they phoned me. It turns out they phoned my office (on a Sunday, where I wasn't of course, since I don't work on Sundays and was flying to France that day anyway). They told me I was supposed to show up 2 hours before scheduled departure time, i.e. 4 hours before actual departure time. After some discussion, they restored my reservations but not my assigned seats. Believe it or not, I have 4 tickets on flight 358 from Paris to Toronto in mid-October.
Explosion of the center fuel tank I’d say. The conspiracy theory is assuming a MANPADS brought down this plane. Firing from sea level up to 13,800 feet at a target that is moving 300 knots (IAS) is stretching it for a MANPADS of ANY type (SA-7,14,16,18, Stinger Basic, Improved or even RMP. Stinger LR was not around then). Many of the older MANPADS can only get an aft shot anyway and those are completely out of the question. Waiting until the target passes over and then taking an aft shot on something that high and fast which your little missile now needs to climb up to and chase the whole time is not feasible. SA-18 and Stingers can fire all aspect, but where can you get one of those (And even they would be over taxed)? Despite all the conspiracy theories, we keep good track of certain weapon systems, as does everyone else.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/stinger-specs.htm
Look at last page IAS and Altitude.
http://www.ntsb.gov/events/TWA800/exhibits/Ex_10A.pdf
Other problems with this theory is that there would be remains or pieces of the missile left in the wreckage. A small MANPADS has a relatively small warhead and several airplanes have been hit in the past and survived (http://www.washtimes.com/world/20031123-123323-6531r.htm or http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/11/29/wkenya29.xml).
The crew might have seen the missile coming. The wreckage should show signs of a blast and have residue that can be detected with a mass spectrometer. We talking about .00001 gram. Equipment that is so sensitive that it can pick up explosives in your sweat for weeks after you touched it. Explosions leave traces. (http://www.geindustrial.com/ge-interlogix/iontrack/prod_vaportracer.html).
It is extremely unlikely that the popular terrorist idea is accurate. There are too many holes in it for it to even be remotely feasible.
Red6
LOL! A classic, that one.
It is a good idea. We have preclearance in the major cities; i.e., Vancouver, Ottawa, Calgary... but it should be done in all cities the originate a flight to the U.S. IMHO, of course. :-)
Good point.
Oh, yes, the ol' A320 "Weed Whacker"; subsequently produced with pilot controlled trimming height and a large, red "E-Stop" button that would tell the flight computer "Just shut the Hell up and let a real pilot fly this bird!"
So, whaddya do with her, then? Help her off the plane when you got down safe?
I'm thinking that the training these people go through doesn't harden them mentally very much. I seriously doubt that it's anything like the psych conditioning our military puts people through, and they still get people here and there who crack out in the field under fire.
I don't think it's as much a "training" thing as I think it's a "human" thing, and some just aren't wired to meet the spectre of possible, violent death face-to-face.
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