The myth of moderate Islam

The Spectator (U.K.) ^ | 07/30/05 | Patrick Sookhdeo

[FierceKulak]

Smart guy. Wonder how long until the liberals start wailing or a fatwa is issued for his death.

[mike182d]

Muslims must stop this self-deception. They must with honesty recognise the violence that has existed in their history in the same way that Christians have had to do, for Christianity has a very dark past.

While I agree with this article as a whole, this statement is absolutely ludicrous. To compare the history of Islam to the history of Christianity is revisionist drivel and historically dishonest.

The past of the Catholic Church is not as dark as people would like to think.

[Pyro7480]

Ping!

[Mr. Keys]

"Islam and terrorists are two words that don't go together" says it all. Why should Islam change when the west holds them blameless? Lunacy! Anywy, two words that do go together are Islamic terrorists.

[Pyro7480]

Ping!

[EdReform]

BTTT

islam explained

[backhoe]

I've sent that ( and related ) link to everyone I know- I hope we wake up in time, because the enemy is inside the gates, already.

[usafsk]

It's plenty dark, I'd say. Christianity has outgrown violent conquest and coerced conversion, and it is no longer used in most of the world to legitimize unelected governments (or maybe you're also a monarchist as well). The triumph of Christianity is that it has overcome it's long, dark history. I'd say the historical parallel is useful in instructing Christians on the dangers of Islam, and Muslims on what model they need to consider.

It's intellectually dishonest to deny the violent acts committed by men in the name of Christianity. As for the past of the Catholic church, I doubt you can be reasoned with on this topic. Reminds of the time I was lectured by a defender of the Church's past about Martin Luther's anti-semitism. Seemed ironic.

[CAP811]

I think the sleeping giant took a heavy duty sleeping pill.

[Dark Skies]

I'd say the historical parallel is useful in instructing Christians on the dangers of Islam, and Muslims on what model they need to consider.

Simply put, violence and conquests are contrary to the life and teaching and Spirit of Jesus but they are consistent with the life and teaching and spirit of Mohammed.

[USF]

One of the most radical Islamic groups in Britain, al-Ghurabaa, stated in the wake of the two London bombings, ‘Any Muslim that denies that terror is a part of Islam is kafir.’ A kafir is an unbeliever (i.e., a non-Muslim), a term of gross insult.

OFENSIVE JIHAD (EXPLAINED BY MUSLIMS)

(excerpt)

"I have been ordered to fight the people until they bear witness that, ‘there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is His Messenger’ and they establish the prayer and the zakat. And if they do this, then from me is protected their blood and their wealth except by the right granted by Allah."

As for his (Salalahu Alaihi Wasallam) actions, they are full of actions that show Jihaad is to start the fighting. So when he went out to Badr to take the caravan belonging to the Quraysh, this was going out to fight, this is offensive – as Muhammad (Salalahu Alaihi Wasallam) initiated the action before the Quraysh. Likewise, when Muhammad (Salalahu Alaihi Wasallam) invaded Hawazin in the battle of Hunayn, when he (Salalahu Alaihi Wasallam) seiged Ta’if and the battle of Mutah to fight the Romans and the Battle of Tabuk – all of these are evidences to show that Jihaad is to start fighting kuffar (offensive). This should clarify the erroneous view that in origin Jihaad is defensive.

[Schnucki]

The 22-year-old from Leeds, whose bomb at Aldgate station killed seven people, was hailed by the crowd as ‘a hero of Islam’.

"We come in peace! We come in peace!"

[End Times Sentinel]

Since the violence cannot be denied, their only course is to argue that the connection with Islam is invalid. The deputy assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, Brian Paddick, said that ‘Islam and terrorists are two words that do not go together.’ His boss, the Commissioner Sir Ian Blair, asserted that there is nothing wrong with being a fundamentalist Muslim.

 

The inability or unwillingness to identify the enemy will assure that England is a muslim caliphate within my lifetime.

Owl_Eagle

(If what I just wrote makes you sad or angry,

 it was probably sarcasm)

[frithguild]

Marked for a repeat read.

[mike182d]

It's intellectually dishonest to deny the violent acts committed by men in the name of Christianity. As for the past of the Catholic church, I doubt you can be reasoned with on this topic. Reminds of the time I was lectured by a defender of the Church's past about Martin Luther's anti-semitism. Seemed ironic.

Prior to the reformation, the Catholic Church was Christianity. So, by referring to the Catholic Church's history, I refer to the whole of Christianity's history prior to the 16th Century.

Second, it may be intellectually dishonest to deny the violent acts committed by men in the name of Christianity, but these acts were not done by the Church herself. Take for example the masacre of Jews in Germany during the Crusades. This was committed by ignorant, illiterate, and overzealous plebians and thoroughly condemned by the Church - in fact many bishops in Germany tried to hide Jews in their Cathedrals during the massacre.

The question is: are we defining religions here as an entity in and of themselves or by the acts of its alleged followers? The dark history of Islam is not about the wrongdoings of over-zealous followers but rather a product of the religion itself, as an entity. The same cannot be said about the history of the Catholic (Christian) Church and thus the histories of the two are no where near comparable.

[usafsk]

I would agree. However, forced conversion and conquest was practiced for centuries by men whose actions were endorsed by the Church. It took centuries for this to change, as it will with Islam. They've not had a reformation. I'd love it if they'd all just drop the Koran and convert, but it's much more likely that a moderation of belief will occur.

Regardless, I don't expect much to change without an increase in violence both against civilized nations and within the Islamic world.

[reagan_fanatic]

Some in Britain cannot conceive that a suicide bomber could be a hero of Islam

It is exactly this kind of head-in-the-sand mentality that permeates Western democracies and puts every single one of us in peril. The followers of islam are completely dedicated to their religion and will sacrifice everything possible (including their own lives) to see that islam becomes the dominant force on Earth.

I fear that, even with more horrific attacks like 9/11, we still won't see the threat of islam for what it truly is - a murderous false religion and philosophy in which whose rabid followers gleefully bestow death and destruction upon anyone who opposes it.

[2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten]

I thought of something the other day. It's commonly said that
1. Islam is a cult
2. Suicide bombers are "brainwashed".
3. Suicide bombers often come from the most normal of circumstances, educated, middle-class etc. etc. etc.
So how is this brainwashing accomplished?

Well, here's what I thought of the other day. Muslims are instructed to pray 5 times a day. We know what the imams and the mullahs preach and we know what they write, but what do these muslims pray about? I'd be willing to bet that in this case prayer = brainwashing. I'll bet you could take any cross section of humanity, give them a script that they are to intensely "pray" about 5 times a day and give them a year or two or three and what do you have? A brainwashed robot in most cases I'd wager.

What do these people "pray" about? Here's my guess. Death to America. Death to Jews. Give me courage to be a martyr. Make me worthy of the martyrs that have gone before. So I wonder, what are the so-called "moderates" praying about? I'm betting it ain't "God bless Mommy and Daddy and big sister and big brother". I'm betting it's more like "death to America" too.

When you see these lines of muslims with their butts in the air and their hands turned up - you just got to ask yourself - what script is running through their heads? What, exactly, is their so-called "prayer"?

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

The difference is that the Inquisition contradicts the Bible, while Jihad is fundamental to the Koran.