The myth of moderate Islam

The Spectator (U.K.) ^ | 07/30/05 | Patrick Sookhdeo

[Dark Skies]

There have actually been many reformations within Christianity and in the hearts of individual Christians. Reformation in Christianity means a move away from the errors of man and closer to Jesus.

Reformation in Islam (to a less violent definition of Islam ) would require a movement away from its prophet and I am not sure that Islam can move further away from its prophet and still be Islam. And even if it did, there would always be devout followers calling for a return to Real Islam as envisioned by Mohammed.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

Osama bin Laden IS Islam's "Martin Luther" and Reformation!

THIS IS NOT FROM AL-QAEDA!

THIS IS JUST A BIT OF WHAT ALL MUSLIMS, INCLUDING SO-CALLED MODERATES, SIGN UP FOR WHEN THEY SAY THE BISMALLAH, "THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH AND MUHAMMAD IS HIS PROPHET"!

KORAN [3.28] Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.

KORAN [4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

KORAN [4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

KORAN [9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

KORAN [9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair [Ezra] is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

HADITH Sahih Bukhari [4:52:176] Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

HADITH Sahih Bukhari [4:52:177] Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

HADITH Sahih Bukhari [4:56:791] Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, 'O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!' "

HADITH Sahih Muslim [41:6981] Ibn 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:
You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me); kill him.

HADITH Sahih Muslim [41:6982] Ubaidullah has reported this hadith with this chain of transmitters (and the Words are):
"There is a Jew behind me."

HADITH Sahih Muslim [41:6983] Abdullah b. 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:
You and the Jews would fight against one another until a stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; come and kill him.

HADITH Sahih Muslim [41:6984] Abdullah b. 'Umar reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said:
The Jews will fight against you and you will gain victory over them until the stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; kill him.

HADITH Sahih Muslim [41:6985] Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:
The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

HADITH Sahih Bukhari [4:52:283] Narrated Abu Juhaifa:
I asked Ali, "Do you have the knowledge of any Divine Inspiration besides what is in Allah's Book?" 'Ali replied, "No, by Him Who splits the grain of corn and creates the soul. I don't think we have such knowledge, but we have the ability of understanding which Allah may endow a person with, so that he may understand the Qur'an, and we have what is written in this paper as well." I asked, "What is written in this paper?" He replied, "(The regulations of) blood-money, the freeing of captives, ******** and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed for killing an infidel." *********

HADITH Sunan Abu Dawud [14:2526] Narrated Anas ibn Malik:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist). The tyranny of any tyrant and the justice of any just (ruler) will not invalidate it. One must have faith in Divine decree.

KORAN: http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/
HADITH: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html

[mike182d]

I would agree. However, forced conversion and conquest was practiced for centuries by men whose actions were endorsed by the Church. It took centuries for this to change, as it will with Islam. They've not had a reformation.

Which actions were "endorsed" by the Church?

Furthermore, the Reformation was a cause of many Catholic deaths in the name of conversion, so I wouldn't stand so tall on that pedestal.

[Dad yer funny]

well said , I'm aghast that we're still playing footsie with these muderous LIARS , we're in the BIGGEST,most protracted war for our very existence EVER!!!

[mike182d]

The difference is that the Inquisition contradicts the Bible, while Jihad is fundamental to the Koran.

For the forum's education:

The Real Inquisition

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

Just as importantly, do the Muslims who keep quoting this verse realise what a deception they are imposing on their listeners?

PART 1: http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter6b/1.html
PART 2: http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter6b/2.html
PART 3: http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter6b/3.html

                     al-Taqiyya/Dissimulation (Part I)

Assallamu `Alaykum,

    Today, I would like to present the concept of "al-Taqiyya" in the
following exposition. This topic is as thorny as previous ones have
been, and many people have experienced great difficulty in trying to
understand it. I pray to Allah (SWT) that this discussion will help loosen
some of the intellectual rust that has accumulated over the years in many
peoples' minds. The interminable negative propaganda that people are
bombarded with on a daily basis serves to nurture feelings of animosity and
disbelief towards the Shia; additionally, it may promote the explicit
denial of proven facts and truths. Nonetheless, you owe it to yourself to
search for the truth; and, indeed, Allah (SWT) has commanded that you do.
As such, it is your prerogative to believe or reject everything that the
Shia claim; but my plea is that the next time you hear a discussion about
the Shia in your Mosque, or any place else, please remember my posts, and
question the person who is discussing the topic. Only then, will you see my
point, In Sha' Allah (SWT).

I intend to demonstrate and prove that the concept of "al-Taqiyya" is an
integral part of Islam, and that it is NOT a Shi'ite concoction.

As usual, the two perspectives, the Sunnis and the Shia, will be presented
to maintain a level of fairness and integrity in the reporting of this
topic.


============
Introduction
============
The word "al-Taqiyya" literally means: "Concealing or disguising one's
beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies  at a
time of eminent danger, whether now or later in time, to save oneself from
physical and/or mental injury."  A one-word translation would be
"Dissimulation."

The above definition must be elaborated upon before any undertaking of this
topic is to ensue.  Although correct, the definition suffers from an
apparent generalization, and lacks some fundamental details that should be
construed:

First, the CONCEALMENT of one's beliefs does NOT necessitate an ABANDONMENT
of these beliefs.  The distinction between "concealment" and "abandonment"
MUST be noted here.

Second, there are numerous exceptions to the above definition, and they
MUST be judged according to the situation that one is placed in.  As such,
one should NOT make a narrow-minded generalization that encompasses all
situations, thereby failing to fully absorb the spirit of the definition.

Third, the word "beliefs" and/or "convictions" does NOT necessarily mean
"religious" beliefs and/or convictions.

With the above in mind, it becomes evident that a better, and more accurate
definition of  "al-Taqiyya" is "diplomacy."  The true spirit of "al-
Taqiyya" is better embodied in the single word "diplomacy" because it
encompasses a comprehensive spectrum of behaviors that serve to further the
vested interests of all parties involved.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

The question is: are we defining religions here as an entity in and of themselves or by the acts of its alleged followers? The dark history of Islam is not about the wrongdoings of over-zealous followers but rather a product of the religion itself, as an entity. The same cannot be said about the history of the Catholic (Christian) Church and thus the histories of the two are no where near comparable.

From my standpoint, it is only in the past several centuries that Jews were as safe in Christian lands as they were in Muslim. It's only in the past 50-100 years that the Christian world has become significantly more friendly towards Jews than the Islamic world.

[JCEccles]

The triumph of Christianity

The triumph of Christianity has always been inherent in its scriptures, and they do not prescribe violence and forced conversion.

The Qu'ran and Hadith are different. Islam was founded on violent conquest and its scriptures do not merely permit but expressly command the forced conversion of the world to Islam. Infidels who do not submit are to be killed.

[siunevada]

Is it not the height of illiberalism and arrogance to deny them the right to define themselves?

It's racist and fascist too.

[agere_contra]

Thanks Mike, that's a very informative link.

[Convert from ECUSA]

Ping!

[sageb1]

The actual definition of "al-taqiyya" is the justification for cowardice. It is the only way a coward can be made to feel like a hero/martyr.

[Convert from ECUSA]

Ping!

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

The Real Inquisition

It's a bit of a whitewash, don't you think, in that there is no authority from the New Testament for doing anything to "heretics" beside removing them from the congregation. And the secular power of the church was anathema to a "kingdom not of this world".

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

The actual definition of "al-taqiyya" is the justification for cowardice. It is the only way a coward can be made to feel like a hero/martyr.

You can't judge them by the Christian standard, "Matthew [10:33] But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." It is just another way that Islam is the inverse of everything Christian and noble.

[Mister Da]

I am astounded & saddened that the wonderful culture of the UK is so close to extinction!

By the time the reformation of islam is complete, if ever, the former multicultural nations will be a part of the caliphate. Britain will be west pakistan & the USA will be west saudi arabia. Remember, the christian reformation took hundreds of years.

Besides, the vast majority of those who call for reform of islam are NOT muslims. Tony Blair & George Bush, etc. can call for reform all they want, but every Friday around the world, many (1,000 - 10,000 - 100,000?) islamic clerics call for violent jihad against ALL non-muslims.

What would be the consequences for the USA of there were just 1,000 Jim Jones or David Koresh type preachers, heavily financed, spreading their vile nonsense across our country? Would it too long before we had another Civil War?

Regarding the death of multiculturalism - it is still alive & well. The London bombings are but a slight wound to this idiocy. I fear the only thing that will kill it is Islam!

[Dad yer funny]

yup , they've proven themselves to be murderous LIARS , our half measures and stern words will get us killed

[mike182d]

It's a bit of a whitewash, don't you think, in that there is no authority from the New Testament for doing anything to "heretics" beside removing them from the congregation. And the secular power of the church was anathema to a "kingdom not of this world".

Hardly. There is no authority from the New Testament claiming that the New Testament, or the Bible, is the sole authority.

[CHARLITE]

Thanks so much for posting this. It's a "keeper." Must be read several times. Meanwhile, do you all recall how Harry Belafonte described the 9/11 attacks on America as "MISCHIEF?"

"The very next verse lists a selection of savage punishments for those who fight the Muslims and create ‘mischief’ (or in some English translations ‘corruption’) in the land, punishments which include execution, crucifixion or amputation. What kind of ‘mischief in the land’ could merit such a reaction?"

Thanks again. I'm glad I saw this one!

Char

[Gritty]

It will be a long, hard road for Islam to get its house in order so that it can co-exist peacefully with the rest of society in the 21st century.

If we truly want to survive, this is not something we should hold our breath over.

1300+ years of worldwide Islamic murder, conquest and forced conversion does not set a good precedent for optimism that Islam will change from blood red to peaceful white.