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Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 7
Various News Sources | 7/14/05

Posted on 07/13/2005 11:15:06 PM PDT by TexKat

Mountain Brook High School graduate Natalee Holloway went missing May 30 during a senior trip to Aruba. AP photo


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; US: Alabama
KEYWORDS: aruba; deepakkalpoe; missing; natalee; nataleeholloway; satishkalpoe; vandersloot
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To: Andy'smom; sarasota; cyborg; kcvl; maggiefluffs; No Surrender No Retreat; grizzfan; ...

Hal Lacey (left) assists Mike Zinszer, Florida State University's dive team diving safety officer and director of FSU's Advanced Science Diving program, and Dan Walsh, the team's technical engineer, as they discuss a dive plan before entering a quarry in Aruba. EMILY BARNES/The Times-Union

INTO THE DEEP: DIVING FOR NATALEE

Divers from Florida State University search for Natalee Holloway, the Alabama 18-year-old who vanished in Aruba in May

By BRIDGET MURPHY, The Times-Union

ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- Waves crash on the craggy coast as Dave and Robin Holloway corral logs that the sea spit toward the California Lighthouse.

Casting them back, the couple watches the Caribbean swallow them whole, a cave below the white-sand shore sucking them into its abyss.

In the 40 days since Dave's daughter and Robin's stepdaughter Natalee Holloway disappeared during a vacation on this Dutch Caribbean island, this 50-foot wide underwater cave is one of the few places search and rescue workers haven't scoured for signs of the 18-year-old Alabama woman.

But within hours, a team of elite diving detectives from Florida State University's Panama City campus will make the plunge, using a blend of science and crime scene protocols to explore the cave. With a 10-pound, sonar-equipped remotely operated robot, they'll also record images of the cave's crannies as they master a danger-filled dive natives of this 19-by-6-mile island shy away from.

The underwater crime scene investigators, recruited by a non-profit Texas group coordinating the volunteer search, are here to do what no one else can: check the places declared not checkable.

The team came together about three years ago after the university won a $300,000 Homeland Security grant. Government investigators found insufficiencies in America's ability to probe underwater crime scenes in the wake of the terrorist bombing of the USS Cole in Yemen in 2000, a blast that killed 17 sailors and injured 39 others. The university got money to start a unit that would remedy that, program officials said.

Reputed as the only team of its kind in the United States, its Aruban mission is to rule out areas where the woman could be, to support the volunteer search and recovery corps' goal: bringing Natalee back home.

'We don't go halfway'

"No luck, huh?" Dave Holloway asks the divers.

Hours after the underwater crime scene investigation, or UCS, team finishes diving the cave and a lagoon on another part of the island, the Holloways are with them at Brickell Bay Beach Club to talk search strategy.

The high-rise hotel is a five-minute walk from the Holiday Inn, where the Holloways occupy room 7114. It is the same room Natalee slept in during her vacation with more than 100 fellow graduates of Mountain Brook High School before she went missing after leaving a nightclub with a local 17-year-old boy.

"One more off the list," diver Mark Feulner reassures Holloway, boosting his spirits after another failed day of searching.

Feulner, 34, is the dive team's details man. An underwater archaeologist born in New York and raised in Florida, Feulner is two semesters short of a Ph.D. in criminology. A technology specialist, Feulner learned during his first dive in 1989 the importance of meticulous pre-dive preparation. He and his dive group arrived at a Florida spring to find another diver suffering from an embolism after making a mistake underwater. A paramedic in Feulner's group started first aid when the other group's divemaster didn't know what to do. The rookie diver never forgot, and be it a body bag or extra batteries, he is the man with the mental checklist.

"We gave it a real good look," diver Dan Walsh, the team's technical engineer, tells the Holloways as he introduces himself.

The guts of the team, the cigar-chomping retired Coast Guard diver has 25 years of military scuba ops under his weight belt and is a few classes away from earning a master's degree in criminology. The 47-year-old Long Island, N.Y., native's diving resume includes recovering astronauts' remains after the Challenger explosion in 1986. He got hooked on diving in 1978 when he took his first plunge after carving a hole in the icy crust of a Pennsylvania quarry.

Before they watch a video the underwater robot captured of the team's sea cave dive, the Holloways also greet another team member, Professor Dale Nute.

FSU dive team members discuss plans for a dive. They'll use a blend of science and crime scene protocols to explore the area. EMILY BARNES/The Times-Union

Nute, 64, is the brains of the team's operation. Born in New Jersey and raised in Florida, the trace evidence specialist has a Ph.D. in criminology. Nute worked 15 years at the Florida Department of Law Enforcement's crime lab in Tallahassee before working another 15 years as a private forensic consultant. Later he became the online program manager for FSU's criminology masters program.

Feulner, Walsh and Nute join Mike Zinszer, 42, the team's diving safety officer and director of FSU's Advanced Science Diving program, in the search for Natalee.

A cocksure ex-Navy diver working on a Ph.D. in education, Zinszer's military career included diving to recover victims in the debris field off Long Island, N.Y., after TWA flight 800 crashed into the Atlantic Ocean in 1996. The Philadelphia-area native's blend of book smarts, braggadocio and charisma make him the heart that powers the pulse of the forensic-diving foursome.

But if the 18-year-old is in Aruban waters, the divers, a team of overachievers like Natalee herself, have perhaps the best shot of finding her where others failed. Natalee was bound for the University of Alabama to start a pre-med program on a full academic scholarship.

Before the Holloways leave the Brickell, the team tells them about plans for the morning to dive a quarry near the airport, where a cadaver dog sniffed possible human remains. The day after, they'll board a 55-foot vessel for a dive on the open ocean near the lighthouse, where investigators think those involved in Natalee's disappearance could have dumped evidence.

It will be a tricky operation amid 10-foot swells in waters that island boat captains sometimes refuse to navigate when tourists charter their pleasure craft, intent on hooking marlins.

"Once we go somewhere," Zinszer says after the Holloways leave, "We don't go halfway."

'Pray for Natalee'

Dan Walsh jumps in after Mike Zinser to begin a search. They are diving in the sea off Aruba's north coast. EMILY BARNES/The Times-Union

Two teams of FSU divers are searching in the muck, sweeping their hands like windshield wipers as they hover over the bottom, hoping to dislodge any weighted objects. With gentle fin kicks, they creep through a 12-foot-deep section of water dodging rebar and tires that spill from the quarry's banks and spindly tree branches that fork through the quarry's surface.

Two ropes -- one tied to a garbage heap, one Nute holds -- are tied at the other end to a branch in the quarry's middle. The ropes mark what starts as a 90-degree swath the dive detectives think is most likely to contain evidence.

They've picked the search area based on wind patterns that stir currents in the quarry, along with a cadaver dog's interest in a barrel by the east bank, which has a steep path to the water from a dark road.

ABOUT THIS STORY

Florida State University's Underwater Crime Scene Investigation team went to Aruba for five days last week to help in the search for missing Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway. Times-Union reporter Bridget Murphy and photographer Emily Barnes chronicle the sea sleuths' mission.

It offers someone familiar with the area a chance to dump evidence with little fear anyone will see them or what they might sink in the swamp.

"I put my fingers on my mask, I don't even see my fingerprints," Zinszer says, surfacing to move the guide rope he's following through the water a few feet over.

For a moment, he removes one of his dive gloves, exposing a braided yarn bracelet on his wrist. It is one of thousands of bracelets volunteers gave out on the island, some with slogans like "Pray for Natalee," to call attention to the young woman's disappearance.

Minutes later, Zinszer submerges again. The pattern continues until after about three hours of diving, the two teams' paths meet in the middle. When they do, the verdict is clear: No Natalee.

It is a trial demanding grit and patience, like the one the Holloways endure as Aruban authorities investigate Natalee's disappearance. Since she went missing May 30, police detained seven suspects, but court hearings happen behind closed doors. Without knowing whether there is proof their daughter fell victim to foul play, the Holloways sit and wait. They hope police will file criminal charges, as they continue to search for Natalee, driving around in a rental car whose state-issued license plate announces Aruba to be "One Happy Island."

Going underwater for answers

"We feel comfortable, very confident the areas we searched are clear," diver Mike Zinszer says. "...We would have loved to recover Natalee and bring her home. Everybody leaves an operation like this empty." EMILY BARNES/The Times-Union

The 55-foot vessel Iliza rocks in the sapphire waters off Aruba's north coast, where bull sharks and hammerheads patrol below, hunting creatures like the sea turtles that pop up to the surface on 10-foot swells.

A side-scan sonar, a slim, missile-like cartridge about the length of economy cars vacationers rent here for $30 a day, trails the vessel as divers Walsh and Zinszer prepare to leap into the deep.

The technology detected a box shape 82 feet below the surface. With law-enforcement intelligence suggesting Natalee's disappearance could be tied to a rectangular dock box, the team decides to investigate.

If they find something, they won't bring it up right away. They'll take photographs and measurements to document the scene, until they are ready to remove the evidence in as close a form as possible to the way they found it. That would include preserving it in some of the water they found it in.

"All you're doing is going underwater to get the answer to the question," Nute says, when he speaks of how underwater crime scene investigators gather evidence.

Their goal? The same as detectives on land. "Let the jury see what you saw so they can make a decision," the professor explains.

FSU's elite dive team Based at Florida State University's Panama City campus, the Underwater Crime Scene Investigation team came together about three years ago after the university won a $300,000 Homeland Security grant. The team consists of Technical Engineer Dan Walsh, Diving Safety Officer Mike Zinszer, Underwater Archaeologist Mark Feulner and Forensic Scientist Dale Nute. EMILY BARNES/The Times-Union

Sometimes, the water preserves a scene longer. Sometimes, it speeds up its destruction, like a recent case in Florida when the team recovered a corpse, quickly scooping it from the water as four crabs gnawed it and a shark circled.

Back home, the team is working on two murder cases. While officials say they're struggling to get financing to continue the program, they've also started making a name for the unit, whose members also teach classes and train law-enforcement personnel at the Panama City campus.

The team also assists in high-profile Florida cases, recently helping locate first the body, then the head of a slain Florida woman in a marsh. They also helped recover the body of a firefighter killed in a helicopter crash, unit members said.

But today, as the rest of the team clings to the bucking deck of the vessel, Walsh and Zinszer discover that the box-like formation 82 feet below is just a coral shelf.

The two divers surface, and as the Holloways watch from shore, the Iliza starts her voyage back to calmer waters, another previously unchecked area checked. But still, no Natalee.

'A thread of a miracle'

Dan Walsh attaches a rope to a branch in a quarry, before a search with other divers. The rope creates a path to follow as they search the bottom of muddy water with almost zero visibility. EMILY BARNES/The Times-Union

"Sherlock Holmes says ... if you get rid of all the possibilities, anything remaining, even if it seems impossible, is true," Nute says that night.

The divers' equipment is spread around the pool deck at the Brickell, as they take turns maneuvering the Videoray, the remotely operated vehicle they used the past couple of days, through the water.

Tonight they'll eat dinner with the Holloways, before flying back home in the morning.

There's disappointment, but comfort in offering the family answers no one else could.

"Our job was to get rid of some of the possibilities," Nute says. "Now the investigators know places she's not."

"We feel comfortable, very confident the areas we searched are clear," Zinszer says. "...We would have loved to recover Natalee and bring her home. Everybody leaves an operation like this empty."

Later, over dinner at a nearby Brazilian-themed restaurant, tears will spill from some of the divers' eyes as Dave and Robin Holloway show them photos of Natalee they haven't shared with anyone else.

The next afternoon, 43 days after Natalee vanished, the Holloways flip through the same photos in the lobby of the Holiday Inn. Natalee's father believes someone on the island knows where to find his daughter but says he's not interested in justice.

"All I care about is bringing her home," Holloway says. "Whatever they do is whatever they do. And we always hold on to a thread of a miracle."

Even one from the deep.

bridget.murphyjacksonville

1,401 posted on 07/17/2005 9:58:02 AM PDT by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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To: justche

Thank you for the information as to Selleck's possible social views. There is an old saying which makes a metaphorical comparison to (age&wine) "The fine wine only gets better with age."

People who have developed a superior mind, attitude and healthy lifestyle can often run cirles around much younger adults.

I do thank you for your comments and wanted to share some with you also.

Have a wonderful and prosperous day. Sincerely, NSNR


1,402 posted on 07/17/2005 9:58:18 AM PDT by No Surrender No Retreat
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To: No Surrender No Retreat
God Bless these volunteer diver and searchers that have tried to help Natalee's family.

Her mother seemed so defeated last night on Geraldo's show, I pray that something of Natalee's surfaces soon.

Justice must be done.

1,403 posted on 07/17/2005 10:02:50 AM PDT by SunnyUsa (No man really becomes a fool until he stops asking questions.)
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To: TexKat

I would much rather see our 50 billion dollars in US Aid spent in funding this Elite Team. President Bush should know by now the P.A. will never appreciate anything we infidels do for them.

May God help this team find Natalee if she can be found. NSNR


1,404 posted on 07/17/2005 10:04:41 AM PDT by No Surrender No Retreat
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To: Andy'smom; sarasota; cyborg; kcvl; maggiefluffs; No Surrender No Retreat; grizzfan; ...
From Riehl World:

Phone Calls And Messages

Conversation and confusion continue around what, if any cell phone calls may have been placed that night, not simply between the suspects, but possibly between the suspects, and / or Natalee and other parties and trip attendees from Mountain Brook High School.

While I will continue to post what I have learned from speaking with reliable sources with a genuine or direct knowledge of events, I must also continue to caution readers that accumulating one larger more solid truth from reading the grains of sand that can be provided by a group of teenagers more caught up in this tragedy than observers must be read in context.

Clearly a combination of factors including - some individuals state of mind that night and after wards; an obvious over-indulgence in alcohol and possibly drugs, including Ecstasy by some in attendance at Carlos and Charlies; a necessarily secretive investigation and a desire by some to not discuss certain events that 1) may not sit well with family and friends and 2) may not always be remembered clearly due to the haze of partying, all combine to confound the unraveling of the mystery behind the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

As regards phone calls what I have learned from a reliable source is that at least two calls are said to have been placed by individuals on Aruba during the late night hours of the first evening of Natalee Holloway's disappearance. The calls were missed, either because phones were deactivated, or because of the poor performance of certain cell phones on the island of Aruba.

One male, said to be a close friend of Natalee Hollway discovered a message as he was riding home to Mountain Brook on a bus with other students and some chaperones. While I'm unable to verify the originating number of the call, I've been told it was not thought to be the cell phone of Natalee Holloway.

The message could not be clearly made out by ear and was characterized as being garbled "Aruban" voices. The call is said to have been originated in the "middle of the night" on the first evening of Natalee's disappearance.

A second "missed call" message is said to have been discovered by a female friend and possible vacation roommate of Natalee Holloway while flying home with the group from Aruba. The two groups of students mentioned were on separate flights.

As reported earlier, it is has been said that the remaining chaperone did use Natalee Holloway's cell phone the next day to reach her friends for more information that might have helped in finding Natalee early on in her disappearance. While that timing suggests the second call could have been placed by the chaperone, one source insists the missed call message was time stamped at 4 AM the previous night. That information has not been corroborated.

Attempts to clarify the circumstances surrounding Natalee's cell phone usage for the trip, specifically did she rent an alternate cell phone, as is common practice for some while visiting Aruba, were met with a no comment from one likely phone provider.

It is possible she had an additional phone resulting in some confusion as to where her cell phone was at any point in time. Also, the time stamp of the missed call from her phone could have been misinterpreted or reported incorrectly from the owner of the phone. It is assumed that authorities have verified those issues.

In the first instance above the young man notified a chaperone upon receiving the phone message and students quickly began to surmise that cell phones and any possible messages could become relevant to any potential investigation. I've been told that at that point most if not all phones were switched off and handed in, presumably to be handed over to investigating authorities.

I have no information as regards other possible phone messages left with anyone linked to this case

1,405 posted on 07/17/2005 10:18:41 AM PDT by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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To: Malichi
Does anyone know that it harder to get up in the morning after being the only sober one with a bunch of drunks.

I have found in the past that a little justice there can be to call one of those hung-down, brung down drunks who you were "taking care of" the night before, call one of them at around 5:30 - 6:00 a.m., and ask if they would like to go out for an early jog. That usually makes me feel better.

;-)

1,406 posted on 07/17/2005 11:25:43 AM PDT by beyond the sea ("If you think it's hard to meet new people, try picking up the wrong golf ball." - Jack Lemmon)
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To: beyond the sea

I'm a boat horn to the ear kinda man myself.


1,407 posted on 07/17/2005 11:27:18 AM PDT by MAWG (Diversity is where everyone looks different but thinks the same way.)
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To: TexKat

What a fascinating article.

God bless all the searchers who have given of their time and resources to try to locate Natalee.


1,408 posted on 07/17/2005 11:33:20 AM PDT by Palladin (America! America! God shed His grace on Thee.)
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To: beyond the sea

Were you looking for me? I'm flattered.


1,409 posted on 07/17/2005 11:38:37 AM PDT by Malichi (!)
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To: No Surrender No Retreat

Bump for that NSNR.


1,410 posted on 07/17/2005 11:38:48 AM PDT by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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To: beyond the sea

I almost did call them, because I had to be at work at 7am.


1,411 posted on 07/17/2005 11:39:33 AM PDT by Malichi (!)
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To: clee1

Cake and Circuses for the masses.. just watch the bouncing ball. Never mind the man behind the curtain.


1,412 posted on 07/17/2005 11:40:26 AM PDT by nsmart
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To: nsmart

Chief, I knew there was a man behind the curtain. I think we need to talk about this under the Cone of Silence.


1,413 posted on 07/17/2005 11:43:38 AM PDT by Malichi (!)
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To: Malichi

Well.. Agent 99 was cuter than I am.. but I can play that role. lol

Seriously, don't you feel that the news media often uses these events (sad as they are) to divert our attention and make less Real investigative work for themselves?


1,414 posted on 07/17/2005 11:47:28 AM PDT by nsmart
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Comment #1,415 Removed by Moderator

To: toldyou

An EMT told us that it is illegal to perform any advanced life saving techniques unless you arrive at the hospital with a pulse. I'm sorry, but I was never so happy to land in Newark and see defibrillators on the walls.

It's a good idea to try fact-checking before passing rumors along. Here's what I found that contradicts the info in the the post you relayed from another site:

A group of Medical Technicians joined forces and intro-duced a new private ambulance service for the Resortsand Hotels in the area and as of November 1, 2004 theystarted by offering partial ambulance service from 9:00a.m. to 9:00 p.m. The ambulance is based at La CabanaBeach Resort and the company intends to get two (2)new ambulances and implement a 24-hour service effec-tive December 1st 2004.

The services offered include emergency and non-emer-gency transport services, First Aid assistance, specialneed groups medical escorting, wheelchairs transportand tours and special equipment rentals.

Demonstration on Defibrillator:Every other week, there is a demonstration of defibrilla-tor by a Medical Expert immediately after the Members Orientation.

Source

1,416 posted on 07/17/2005 12:15:32 PM PDT by elli1
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To: Malichi
Ye I was. I just wanted to see why you bit my head off over on that other thread. ;-)

Now I understand. Nothing worse than babysitting a bunch of out-of-control drinkers late into the night....... and the dancing request --- whew!

;-)

1,417 posted on 07/17/2005 12:18:33 PM PDT by beyond the sea ("If you think it's hard to meet new people, try picking up the wrong golf ball." - Jack Lemmon)
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To: TexKat
on SM:

"another monkey wrote: Talking to an acquaintance in Aruba right now - People Magazine reporter touring caves, someone found LONG BLOND WITH DUCT TAPE in the cave, police there right now! More later as it comes in..."

" I'm waiting for another phone call about the cave, I heard a reporter in the background who was at the cave relaying this info to my friend. I hastily wrote the above post as we were talking, it sh/be LONG BLOND HAIRS . The question is: Is this just a "plant" or is it Natalee's hair? Hopefully someone is tuned into Aruban radio or tv."

1,418 posted on 07/17/2005 12:20:38 PM PDT by monkeywrench (Deut. 27:17 Cursed be he that removeth his neighbor's landmark)
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To: beyond the sea

Fingerprint for later reading.


1,419 posted on 07/17/2005 12:20:50 PM PDT by TAquinas (Demographics has consequences.)
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To: jbeachgrl5

Good morning jbeachgrl5. Thank you.


1,420 posted on 07/17/2005 12:21:17 PM PDT by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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