Posted on 07/13/2005 7:07:36 PM PDT by CHARLITE
The first published interview with new CIA Director Porter Goss, which appeared last week in Time magazine, contained a bombshell that exploded with barely any notice.
To the ritual question — when will we get Osama bin Laden? — Goss gave a far from ritual answer.
"That is a question that goes far deeper than you know," Goss began. "We have some weak links" that make it impossible for now to get bin Laden, he explained, pointing to "the very difficult question of dealing with sanctuaries in sovereign states."
Sounds like you know where he is, the interviewer pressed. "I have an excellent idea of where he is," Goss responded.
The CIA boss was delivering a clear message to the "weak link" — Pakistan and its military ruler, Gen. Pervez Musharraf.
Consider just these few recent events:
On June 5, the FBI arrested a young Pakistani-American man and his father in Lodi. According to their affidavits, the men purportedly lied about the son being trained during the past two years in al-Qaida-linked camps just outside Rawalpindi, home to the army's headquarters. The Pakistani government hurriedly denied that such camps existed.
The following week, a Pakistani TV network aired an interview with a senior Taliban commander in contact with Taliban leader Mullah Omar and bin Laden. Afghan officials and the outgoing U.S. ambassador in Kabul, Zalmay Khalilzad, questioned how a TV crew could find a man whom Pakistani intelligence services say they can't locate.
On June 20, Afghan authorities arrested three Pakistanis for plotting to assassinate the U.S. ambassador to Pakistan, a frequent critic of Islamabad's failure to curb the Taliban. Afghan officials see the hand of the ISI behind all this, including a recent upsurge in Taliban violence.
(Excerpt) Read more at jewishworldreview.com ...
Sounds quite possible to me.
The only thing I know for sure is that I know nothing for sure. Trying to piece together what is really happening like this is fool's gold. Goss could be engaging in disinformation for all we know. This is why we elect leaders and let them do there damned jobs. We have no freaking idea what is going on REALLY. As Bush said, most of this war will be fought in the shadows and may never be known. God only knows what sacrifices have already been made by Americans that will never see the light of day.
To be a backseat driver on this is to be stupid.......we (the public) don't have access to the real intel....thank God. Now THAT would be a disaster.
I see our only real chance in Iran is to overthrow the government. Since Musharraf has already survived at least two assassination attempts your argument does make sense .... It's kind of sad that it's taking longer to get OBL then it took the US to defeat Germany and Japan in WWII. But I don't really think this is a WOT, but it is the first real real war over the ownership ... control and use of nuclear weapons. Having the ISI give OBL Pakistan's nukes is even scarier then Iran getting them .....
I think in Iran, that one depends upon whether they were in the hands of civilians or the current ruling government.
America has a higher favorability rating among rank-and-file Iranians (who still prefer to be called "Persians") who love America and everything about her, than she does in - well, America or France. When last surveyed, that rating was well over 70%. Certainly not consistent with what their repressive government would wish we believed.
In the hands of common citizens, our boys would be safely shielded. In the hands of a dutiful muslim government mouthpiece, they would be brutalised pieces of toast.
A.A.C.
ping
if we knew exactly where he was - which house for example, we would take it out. we don't know. so what are you going to do, carpet bomb the suspected towns in Pakistan where we think he might be? its almost impossible to get a guaranteed kill with an approach like that.
Well, yeah. But they were slaughtered a couple of weeks ago by the ragheads in Afghanistan. Theyre not archangels ya know. They bleed like everyone else.
Its 70% bc they need our help in undoing what they themselves did in 1979. They got what they asked for in their "revolution". Now they want to change things, but theyre not willing to give up Islam.
Sorry, no dice. IF they got rid of Islam, however...then we'd talk.
Have you all noticed that President George W. Bush is a very patient man..........slow to anger, taking his time, unruffled, unbloodied and unbowed?
I can't imagine that by the time he leaves office, he will not have captured Bin Laden & Associates!
I continue to trust and have faith in this president. He is a very VERY special man.
Thanks for your remarks, and for your contribution to this thread, Arch!
Char :)
True, but Mush has been a pretty stand-up guy in this whole WOT thing. In fact, other than perhaps Tony Blair, Mushareff has been THE most important ally we've had. He may be disingenuous, ultimately, but for now, he's been invaluable.
I would propose remembering that this is not a clean-cut war of nations, and not expect the same sort of timetable that a war of nations would follow. This war is and will continue to be more political than military. And since this is really more of a struggle of cultures, I expect this war will continue for some time to come before the end is reached.
I think the path we are on now is most likely the best course of action, overall. I am sure that tactically or operationally some things could be done better or differently, but the overall strategy is as sound as any we could come up with.
We have largely pinned the terrorists into a confrontation in Iraq, but I am certain that some will again strike here, in England and elsewhere. However, with the main terror effort focused in Iraq, it buys us the time we need to make non-public efforts in Iran, in Pakistan and elsewhere. I am certain there are lots of things going on out there that we have not heard about, and probably never will; the 'war in the shadows' Bush spoke of last year.
If it was just a matter of invasion and conquest, we would either be done by now or we would have united the entire world against us. Our leadership has chosen to take an indirect path that will hopefully grant us a more lasting victory and long-term peace. That indirect path may last another decade, but as time goes on our accomplishments will continue to increase (such as Libya, or the Syrian withdrawal; steps towards our goal).
If we were more forceful before the proper time, we could destroy everything we are fighting for. Alienate the Pakis enough to get them to hand nukes over to bin Ladin. Convince the Chinese to support North Korea. Or even allow a coalition of liberals and doubters here in the USA to build enough power and influence to stop this war and hand victory to the terrorists.
I wish I were wise enough to see how to bring an end to this, but I am not. I am wise enough to see how NOT to prosecute the war, and wise enough to see that impatience will only destroy us.
The Muslims who remained in India (there are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan) are not exterminated, nor are they living in the stone age.
Return the Punjab, Kashmir, Sind, NWFP and Baluchistan to their rightful status as part of India, and all the problems you correctly cite are gone.
And let the Indians, who are not burdened by fear of being "crusaders" and by multicultural nonsense, take care of business.
The traditions of terrorism in Arab society can be traced all the way back to the Old Man of the Mountain and his Assassins. Even the term used by Arab terrorists during the 1950's, fedayeen, meaning "one who sacrifices or goes on a suicidal mission"goes back to this Ismailic sect, which produced the Assasins of the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries.
This Group was an offshoot of Shiite Islam, recognizing Ismail, who died in 755 as the 7th Imam and diriving it's name from him.
.......Hasan was a native of Khorasan and a Shiite, who developed his own following of the Ismailitic doctrine that called for the assassination of enemies of the faith. He attracted a considerable following and formed them into a secret cociety with Headquarters in a strong mountain fortress, the Rock of Alamut, in Persia (IRAN)
He became known as the Old man of the Mountain. Under him were three "grand princes" who ruled the three provinces over which the Old Man's power extended. Next came the priors, who were fully initiated into all the secret doctrines and the responsibility of spreading the faith. Under these were the initiates, fifth, were the fida'is, or "the devoted ones", the actual assasins from whose name we get the current fedayeen. The last two classes were the novices and the common people....
It goes on to explain how he provided the assasins with every pleasure and they smoke hasish to enhance the illusion of paradise mentioned in the Korn. Wine Women and song. They were permitted to indulge in every pleasure until the Old Man dicided on a target and summoned one of them to him.
This should sound familiar to any that want to face the reality. Your sweet little Americanized Islamofascist neighbor, enjoying the pleasures of an open society, amy just be waiting for a call fro the OLD MAN.
It's also probably true that we are in the WOT for the long haul, regardless if bin jerkin is captured or not. Plenty of ideological nut jobs in line waiting to fondle his AK-47 (the sceptar) and call it their own.
Maybe it's time to keep personalities out of the headlines and highlight the real source of terror. Islam itself. Islam has been the back-seat driver of terrorism and never gets blamed. When the car runs over a pedestrian, who gets blamed? The driver, of course. And the back seat driver keeps on a'truckin' in the back seat of another nut-job's vehicle.
I don't think it would matter if Bin laden was captured or not..or if anyone knew where he was..The thing that matters is there are so many crazy followers of this demon that they would continue to do what they do best and that is blow themselves up..
The reality is that because we have been spooked and scared by Paki nuke and an irrational fear of what comes after him, we have settled for a few AQ bigwigs, but letting the top guys run free to preserve Mush in power.
As an aside, our rhetoric about democracy rings hollow, bombastic and opportunistic when we support a military dictator who got virtually the same percentage of votes as Saddam or the old Soviet Politburo - 95%+! HA!
Our money finances golf courses, Swiss chalets, Paris shopping trips for wifes and mistresses for their generals, while simulataneously being used to train jihadis in military camps, often called terror training camps, which they are. Jihadis are being trained right under the noses of the US presence. God the Pakis are cheeky and they must be laughing their heads off.
The US is financing the training of jihadis not only at these camps but in the madrassas where jihadis now have access to the latest technology without any corresponding change in the poisonous curriculum.
And now, my predictions are coming true. Right now, it's only the British who are rueing and regretting the pass given to Paki imams, mosques and the whole damn country.
Will it be our turn next.
And as far as Osama, EVERY day he is free increases his stature exponentially and adds to the growing myth and legend of how he's evaded the Infidels for almost FOUR years. The Shaykh has never exercised more influence on the minds of those inclined to jihad than as of now.
He inspires the masses, and they exult in his glow.
Agreed and agreed. I must have misunderstood an earlier post or else posted that response to the wrong person.
These terrorists are too dumb to realize that when they poop on the carpet, in safe house after safe house, and each beguiled host finds their guest is just as willing to butcher a host for serving them lumpy gravy, as they are to butcher the ones from whom they are hiding.
Eventually those nations (and America's liberals and MSM as well) who think going along to get along
will free them from the threat of terrorists, will wake up,should they survive that long, and...........
Dejavu, "High Noon".
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