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Jihad Is Knocking: Another Episode in the War between Christendom and Islam - (sensational piece!)
VICTOR HANSON.COM ^ | JULY 10, 2005 | BRUCE THORNTON

Posted on 07/10/2005 9:19:10 PM PDT by CHARLITE

The slaughter in London is another grisly wake-up call that likely will go as unheeded as earlier ones. Already the standard narrative is being trotted out: evildoers created by what the New York Times predictably called the “root causes of terrorism”: autocracy, or economic stagnation, or Palestinian suffering, or globalization's dislocations, or Western historical sins, or the war in Iraq (the cause will depend on the political prejudices of the pundit) have “hijacked” Islam and distorted its peaceful message.

And now they are using Islam to justify murder in order to further their own ambitions or dysfunctional psychic needs. Given this explanation, so the story goes, we must be careful not to demonize all Muslims and assure them that we respect their religion and culture. The tale is then wrapped up with fierce threats against the terrorists and protestations of admiration for Islam.

Believing this delusion requires that one ignores fourteen centuries of Islamic jihad against the West, a war of conquest and colonization ratified by centuries of Islamic theology and jurisprudence. Indeed, what we call Islamic radicals are in fact Islamic traditionalists; it is the so-called “moderates” — those wanting to compromise Islam so it can coexist with Western ideas such as secular government, separation of church and state, and human rights — who are the radicals and innovators.

The terrorists are simply fulfilling the traditional and orthodox command of their religion to battle the infidels who resist the revelation of Mohammed and the global socio-political order mandated by Islam.

Listen to one of the most respected and influential of Muslim clerics, Sheikh Yousef Al-Qaradhawi, on the legitimacy of jihad:

(Excerpt) Read more at victorhanson.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 2005; appeasement; bombings; brucethornton; conquest; crusades; dhimmitude; historical; islam; jihad; jihadists; july7; koranimals; london; muslim; muslims; religionofpeace; rop; terror; trop; victory; war; waronterror; wot; wwiv
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To: TheSpottedOwl
If they are not citizens, by all means deport them. If they are citizens, depending on their level of involvement, I am all for the death penalty, if you can convince the courts. That's the problem.

However, treason has been difficult to prove, as one must have two witnesses. Pretty hard to prove that with a terrorist cell.

I also would isolate them from other prisoners, so that they can't stir up trouble. That is perfectly reasonable. Furthermore, I would screen Islamic ministers who recruit in prisons. I don't think all of those guys are on the up and up.

181 posted on 07/11/2005 11:48:12 AM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: wardaddy; John Filson; Travis McGee; Squantos; bourbon; WKB
"Ping for number 23 from a fairly new forum member."

Agreed. Welcome, John Filson, to our gritty [not so] little band of loyal American conservatives. Nobody will ever confuse us with the FR quisling contingent.

182 posted on 07/11/2005 11:48:56 AM PDT by Czar (StillFedUptotheTeeth@Washington)
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To: Czar

Who is the FR quisling contingent?


183 posted on 07/11/2005 11:50:03 AM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: CHARLITE

VDH bump!


184 posted on 07/11/2005 12:01:26 PM PDT by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like what you say))
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To: John Filson

Welcome aboard!


185 posted on 07/11/2005 12:12:36 PM PDT by BayouCoyote (The 1st victim of islam is the person who practices it.)
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To: SuziQ
They push the Wahhabist sect because it is one of fatalism and submission so that they don't fight against their miserable lot in life; they only fight against the 'infidel'.

You're right. It's a technique used throughout the middle east...

186 posted on 07/11/2005 12:46:04 PM PDT by GOPJ
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To: Miss Marple; Travis McGee; wardaddy
"Who is the FR quisling contingent?"

Watch the immigration-related threads. The quisling contingent is quite easy to identify. They always take a pro-illegal stance, adopt the attack mode very quickly, and engage in racebaiting whenever they're cornered or outed.

If you want to test any of the FOQNAs yourself, just ask them one simple question which requires a yes or no answer: "Loyal American conservatives believe in defending American sovereignty, protected and secure borders, and the preservation of American culture, customs, traditions and language. These are the values of loyal American conservatives. Are they yours?"

Like a vampire fleeing the sign of the cross, they will either bail out of the thread entirely, attack you, deny and stonewall, or, as one quisling tried to do, toss out something like "family values" which, of course, is not a responsive answer whatsoever, but merely a weak attempt to sound patriotic and conservative. Quislings are neither.

187 posted on 07/11/2005 1:20:26 PM PDT by Czar (StillFedUptotheTeeth@Washington)
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To: CHARLITE
I'll tell you something I did recently to prove a point to a friend who I was ummmm..."debating" with regarding this.

I was explaining to him that this IS a religious war. I do believe in a divine power. That's as far as I get into discussing my own religion. I told my friend before hand..."no matter what happens in the next five minutes....I do not want you to take this personal, ok?...I am your friend and will remain so....promise me what I am about to do will not harm our friendship"

With a real funny look on his face.....he agreed.

I said..."ok, here goes". I hauled off and belted him across his cheek with an open hand as hard as I could. I mean... this was like a freakin' home run hit.....right out of the ballpark! My hand went numb, I almost knocked him off of his feet. To say he was pissed at me...well, that was an understatement. He said... "WTF was THAT for"?

I said... "well, I do not like your particular religion."

His face was already beginning to swell... it was QUITE red.....
He said... "I don't understand....WHY did you DO THAT"?

I said... "EXACTLY"!

That is my point. You do not understand. You are not willing to even listen to me when I TELL you I did this because I do not like your religion. Think of it as me....starting a religious war.
That is how I choose to frame it. You can sit there dumbfounded...
rubbing your face...
and wonder WHY I belted you. You can sit there and TRY to reason with me. You'll just be wasting your time.

I belted him again.. He fell back onto a couch that was behind him. At this time, I had no desire to smack him a third time.... he's a bit bigger than me...and besides... I swear I popped something in my wrist. I quickly reminded him of his promise too! LOL

I told him again...
"This is a religious war". Do you believe me?

He was still unsure.... I laughed....thinking this is the position we (the US) are in now.....even after 30+ years of terrorist attacks... we STILL try to rationalize it. We can't even ADMIT that to these people (Muslims)....it IS a religious war! We STILL try to think about these attacks on OUR terms... by OUR moral standards. Until every man, woman and child in the US (Great Britain and Australia for that matter) take these Muslims for their word... that this is indeed a religious war.... we're doomed to keep on getting smacked in the face...and worse.
188 posted on 07/11/2005 1:27:15 PM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: Czar

Thank you for the information.


189 posted on 07/11/2005 1:41:58 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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Self ping


190 posted on 07/11/2005 1:53:30 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: John Filson
"I'm not sure what sort of an attack would cause the hardened ones on this thread to change. I've asked them each if 7,000,000 injuries/casualties would be enough. I have yet to read one single answer to that question.

"I think the inability for these fair weather 'patriots' to process that question is more terrifying than the terrorists."

This bears repeating, John. The lack of comprehension of the fact that this is all-out war is stunning. What needs to be done is a massive blow similar to the way in which Harry "Give 'Em Hell" Truman brought the War in the Pacific to an end - quickly......and yes, brutally. But in the end, it saved both American and enemy lives and terminated "The Empire of Japan."

What if we could end islamofascism by obliterating Mecca, Medina, selected sites all over Iran, plus - say - Damascus? Would THAT impress jihadists? Would THAT give them "pause?"

Thanks for your always astute comments, John.

Char :)

191 posted on 07/11/2005 2:23:21 PM PDT by CHARLITE (I propose a co-Clinton team as permanent reps to Pyonyang, w/out possibility of repatriation....)
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To: Cultural Jihad
Then let Islam and Muslims condemn all forms of terrorism, for any purpose, with no caveats attached. How about a fatwah against terrorists? I'm waiting.....zzzzzzzzz
192 posted on 07/11/2005 2:31:06 PM PDT by ArmyTeach (Pray daily for our troops...)
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To: Miss Marple

You know what's ironic? There were stories about how inmates were being recruited by Muslims, years ago. I thought it was great. Give them a disciplined religion, and maybe they'll turn their lives around. Hahahahahaaa!

We're going to have to change things in this country, and fast. Is deportation good enough? Unfortunately our good friends at the ACLU and the UN will defend these terrorist scumbags, even as bombs are going off in their headquarters. Look at the one eyed terrorist, Mohammed Atta, well I think that's his name. Look how long he's been in prison. Look at all the fools whining about his imprisonment. That's all we'll hear when we start cleaning house. Oh, and then there's the courts : (

Maybe we can charge them with war crimes. By creating terrorist cells, and preaching for our destruction, it could come under an act of war, and of course treason. I'm sure they can come up with ways to get a couple of witnesses.


193 posted on 07/11/2005 3:39:02 PM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (UR 0wN3D: USSC-2005)
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To: TheSpottedOwl; Grampa Dave
I told Grampa Dave back in 2002 that I thought the Islamic chaplains were recruiting in the gangs and at prison. I have been suspicious of this for a long time.

We have a problem in that many of the solutions that you would like to take will be struck down by the courts. Unless we have another terrorist attack, the public isn't ready for any draconian measures. That is reality.

194 posted on 07/11/2005 3:42:17 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: AmericanArchConservative; John Filson
Most eloquently put. Might I humbly suggest that our first obstacle is to climb out of our PC bog and identify the enemy. Lacking that, there is no victory for us.
195 posted on 07/11/2005 3:46:32 PM PDT by ArmyTeach (Pray daily for our troops...)
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To: philman_36; Dark Skies; AmericanArchConservative; jan in Colorado

FYI. Check out #122

(snip)
TITLE 50 > CHAPTER 3 > § 21. Restraint, regulation, and removal
Whenever there is a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory incursion is perpetrated, attempted or threatened against the territory of the United States by any foreign nation or government, and the President makes public proclamation of the event, all natives, citizens, denizens, or subjects of the hostile nation or government, being of the age of fourteen years and upward, who shall be within the United States and not actually naturalized, shall be liable to be apprehended, restrained, secured, and removed as alien enemies. The President is authorized in any such event, by his proclamation thereof, or other public act, to direct the conduct to be observed on the part of the United States, toward the aliens who become so liable; the manner and degree of the restraint to which they shall be subject and in what cases, and upon what security their residence shall be permitted, and to provide for the removal of those who, not being permitted to reside within the United States, refuse or neglect to depart therefrom; and to establish any other regulations which are found necessary in the premises and for the public safety.

Brilliant post, philman!


196 posted on 07/11/2005 4:18:34 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (Understand Islam. Understand Evil. Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD link My Page.)
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To: Miss Marple

Al qaeda's American Farm team, aka the Black Muslims/al Fuqra have been recruiting black recruits in our prisons via our tax $'s for at least 2 decades.


197 posted on 07/11/2005 5:16:58 PM PDT by Grampa Dave (The civilized world must win WW IV/the Final Crusade and destroy Jihadism!)
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To: Miss Marple; Grampa Dave
I told Grampa Dave back in 2002 that I thought the Islamic chaplains were recruiting in the gangs and at prison. I have been suspicious of this for a long time.

It didn't even penetrate my conscienciousness, back when I first heard about the recruitment in the late '80's. I've always been a live and let live kind of person. I thought this could be beneficial to the criminals serving their sentences. I bought the whole peaceful Islam propaganda, wholesale : (

Now I want them the hell out of this country. A loyalty oath is completely useless, when their way of life dictates that they may/must lie to non Muslims.

Yes of course, the courts are our main problem. They've been our main problem for generations. The public is too cowed by PC, to talk openly about how they feel about this issue. Many people don't even realize that they are in danger. They assume Big Nanny is making their security a priority. Surely there is a quiet way of taking care of this problem, without disturbing the sheep.

Reality is a really nasty attack, which will decimate cities. Reality is when the sheep will still bleat and protest in favor of the terrorists, even after such an occurance.

198 posted on 07/11/2005 5:26:10 PM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (UR 0wN3D: USSC-2005)
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To: TheSpottedOwl

"Reality is a really nasty attack, which will decimate cities. Reality is when the sheep will still bleat and protest in favor of the terrorists, even after such an occurance."

The left coast uber liberals hate America, Republicans and GW so much, they are incapable of ever bad mouthing the Jihadists who would kill all of us, including the liberals.


199 posted on 07/11/2005 5:33:22 PM PDT by Grampa Dave (The civilized world must win WW IV/the Final Crusade and destroy Jihadism!)
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To: Grampa Dave
The left coast uber liberals hate America, Republicans and GW so much, they are incapable of ever bad mouthing the Jihadists who would kill all of us, including the liberals.

You are right. They'd willingly be slaughtered, than fight for their own country. Millions of Rachel Corries endangering the rest of us, while trying to prevent us from implementing national security. Can we deport them, too???

200 posted on 07/11/2005 5:45:33 PM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (UR 0wN3D: USSC-2005)
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