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1 posted on 06/02/2005 6:49:01 PM PDT by quidnunc
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To: quidnunc

bttt


2 posted on 06/02/2005 6:50:51 PM PDT by Luigi Vasellini (60% of Saudis, 58%of Iraqis, 55%of Kuwaitis,50% of Jordanians married 1st or 2nd cousins. LOL!!!)
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To: quidnunc

Wow! There so many good passages in this opinion piece I just don't know where to begin. :)

A most lovely PING!


4 posted on 06/02/2005 6:57:54 PM PDT by Chgogal (Pinging 72 virgins. Pinging 72 virgins.)
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To: quidnunc

I wonder...did anyone write stuff like this at the threshold of the medieval period?


5 posted on 06/02/2005 6:58:31 PM PDT by TheGeezer
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To: quidnunc
European Civilisation Has Sown the Seeds of Its Own Decline and Fall (Should be required reading!)

Bump.

6 posted on 06/02/2005 7:00:17 PM PDT by A. Pole (Mikolaj Rej: "A niechaj narodowie wzdy postronni znaja, Iz Polacy nie gesi, iz swoj jezyk maja.")
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To: quidnunc
Good post.

"When its American ally was attacked in September 2001, Europe gamely offered to reciprocate for US protection in the Cold War, but most European nations lacked the military resources to turn that promise into anything more than tokens.

Then in Iraq in 2003, confronted with a tyrant who had repeatedly thumbed his nose at the international system that Europe supposedly revered, it instinctively recoiled, and a softened-up intellectual elite turned on the Americans instead."

Yes, Europe thought that mere lip service, or better yet their "approval" of our venture in Iraq would more than pay for over 50 years of sacrifices by the American taxpayer and soldier. WRONG. Now, we sit and watch Europe's little experiment in self-aggrandizement shatter on the rocks of human interest, and laugh. Go to Hell Europe. We'll never help you with anything again. Count on it. In fact, given some leadership in DC that has balls, you'll be on our short list of "places to eradicate" if you're not really careful.

7 posted on 06/02/2005 7:01:40 PM PDT by datura (Looking down at the bayonet sliding out of him, OBL read "Molon Labe" on the hilt.)
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To: quidnunc
The writer of this piece is a little too full of himself. He does have the conclusion correct, that Europe is in the process of committing suicide. But he doesn't have a clue about why that is so.

For a shorter and more accurate take on the same situation, click below.

Congressman Billybob

Latest column: "60 Million Frenchmen Can't be Wrong"

9 posted on 06/02/2005 7:05:18 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob (For copies of my speech, "Dealing with Outlaw Judges," please Freepmail me.)
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To: quidnunc

An excellent analysis. But it omits a couple of crucial factors. First, birth control and abortion. The European crisis is largely a demographic crisis. Muslims are flooding in because Europeans wanted cheap workers to replace the children they didn't have.

Second, it omits the corruption among the ruling classes in France, Belgium and elsewhere. Europe didn't really stay out of Iraq because they had no military. They stayed out of Iraq because they had corrupt deals with Saddam, as represented by Total-Fina-Elf and the UN Oil for Food program.

A key factor was France, which decided to ally itself with the Muslims instead of America. This was not the first time France acted in this way. France stayed home from the battles of Lepanto and Vienna. Louis XIV forged an alliance with the Grand Turk against the rest of Europe. Europe never for a minute wanted to spring to America's aid after 9/11; except for England, it only pretended to sympathize.

So, the essay is good as far as it goes, but it omits key factors.


10 posted on 06/02/2005 7:09:18 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: quidnunc

Like most things, I suspect that the Euro press is overreacting to the French and Dutch votes. Yes, the constitution is dead, but does anyone think the French/German political elites are just going to go away? Just throw up their hands and say "oh, we didn't know you felt like that."?

Of course not. The EU bureaucracy and the French/German elites are going to work hard to overturn their own voters' increasing euro-skepticism. Disgust at that may, finally, cause the UK to begin to disengage and lead the Dutch and some others into a closer understanding with the States.


11 posted on 06/02/2005 7:09:29 PM PDT by happyathome
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To: quidnunc

Wow... he really sums it all up!


12 posted on 06/02/2005 7:10:30 PM PDT by Betaille (Capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries)
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To: Tolik; LogicalMs; CHARLITE; tiamat

ping


13 posted on 06/02/2005 7:10:40 PM PDT by King Prout (RG'OIHGV 08 YAEGRKoirliha35u9p089 y5gep'iojq5g353hat5eohiahetb98 ye5po)
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To: quidnunc

Is it possible??? Are the Europeans finally starting to "get it"?


14 posted on 06/02/2005 7:11:00 PM PDT by Betaille (Capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries)
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To: quidnunc

"At home [in Europe]...moral relativism, bred by years of pampered prosperity, was creating its own destructive forces. Again, egged on by intellectual elites, Europeans were encouraged to despise the civilisation that had nurtured them."

Great piece! And obviously sadly true of many of our fellow Americans as well.




16 posted on 06/02/2005 7:12:11 PM PDT by RedRover (I bowl alone.)
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To: quidnunc
embraced peace as a strategy

Just like declaring "prosperity" as an economic policy.

Good call on the required reading. A fine article.

20 posted on 06/02/2005 7:37:28 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: quidnunc

bump


21 posted on 06/02/2005 7:39:36 PM PDT by ellery (The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedience, and by parts. - Edmund Burke)
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To: quidnunc; King Prout
Superb post, quidnunc. And thanks, King Prout, for the heads up. I'm so glad that I was able to read this one.

Now that I have done so, just about when to you suppose "old Europe" will begin yelling "Uncle" again, as they have twice already in less than 100 years?

And will Uncle go save them again? We may not have a choice, unless we decide to simply cede all of Europe to Islam. What a thought. Yet it's clearly coming and could be a reality inside of 20 years.......or less.

It is both amazing and appalling to me that "very old Europe" is kicking us in the shins, without the slightest thought on their part (or that of their current leaders), that we are their only true hope........"the last great hope of mankind on earth"......unless you want to also include the Australians.

Char


Gerhardt Schoeder


22 posted on 06/02/2005 7:40:47 PM PDT by CHARLITE (Why do we permit seditious, hateful messages to be shouted from muslim pulpits in America?)
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To: quidnunc

Excellent article!


32 posted on 06/02/2005 8:46:25 PM PDT by Frank_2001
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To: quidnunc
What kind of defeatist lazy bums consider willing workers abroad a "threat", rather than an opportunity?
34 posted on 06/02/2005 8:52:59 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: an italian; wolf78; Michael81Dus; katana; KalleKula; Eurotwit

Ping: You'll not want to miss this thread.


35 posted on 06/02/2005 8:55:54 PM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: quidnunc

bttt


37 posted on 06/02/2005 9:17:08 PM PDT by lainde
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To: quidnunc
Forty-five years after the Second World War, continental Western Europe could plausibly claim to have created a kind of postmodern nirvana — a half-continent-wide zone of unparalleled prosperity, cushioned by an apparently permanent peace among some of the most historically murderous peoples on Earth.

That is called the Pax Americana.

38 posted on 06/02/2005 9:17:24 PM PDT by Polybius
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