European Civilisation Has Sown the Seeds of Its Own Decline and Fall (Should be required reading!)

The Times [UK] ^ | June 3, 2005 | Gerard Baker

[quidnunc]

On Sunday night, at precisely the moment the French were angrily delivering their resounding “non” to Europe’s would-be nation-builders, I happened to be in Istanbul, in the genial company of a transatlantic crew of foreign-policy thinkers.

As the boat on which we were having dinner bobbed gently up the busy Bosphorus, it struck me that this was not a bad place from which to contemplate the latest European crisis. The waters that mark the very end of Europe provide a useful historical context in which to consider, what is for some, the End of Europe.

Out here, beyond the lights winking from the grand mansions that hug the Asian shoreline, begins the vast land mass into which the founders of Western civilisation poured in search of treasure and conquest. Millennia later, to the demoralised successors of those same enterprising Europeans, the traffic seems all the other way. Asia offers only threat, not promise; the future one of outsourced telemarketers in India and offshore manufacturing in China.

From here, too, at a more mortal crisis in Europe’s history, the Ottoman Empire stretched to every point of the compass, around the Black Sea, across the Middle East, into North Africa and deeper and deeper into a collapsing Europe. Today, it seems that the Caliph’s successors are reclaiming that territory, only this time moving more or less unopposed towards their goal.

These twin threats — the economic challenge of fiercely competitive globalisation and a political challenge to the culturally deracinated, splintering societies — are driving Europe into debilitating turmoil.

-snip-

[ellery]

bump

[CHARLITE]

Superb post, quidnunc. And thanks, King Prout, for the heads up. I'm so glad that I was able to read this one.

Now that I have done so, just about when to you suppose "old Europe" will begin yelling "Uncle" again, as they have twice already in less than 100 years?

And will Uncle go save them again? We may not have a choice, unless we decide to simply cede all of Europe to Islam. What a thought. Yet it's clearly coming and could be a reality inside of 20 years.......or less.

It is both amazing and appalling to me that "very old Europe" is kicking us in the shins, without the slightest thought on their part (or that of their current leaders), that we are their only true hope........"the last great hope of mankind on earth"......unless you want to also include the Australians.

Char

Gerhardt Schoeder

[dead]

Europe didn't really stay out of Iraq because they had no military. They stayed out of Iraq because they had corrupt deals with Saddam, as represented by Total-Fina-Elf and the UN Oil for Food program.

That explains why the leaders took that stance.

But the masses (who didn't personally have a hand in the kitty) felt that a moral superior dance was called for, rather than an honest assessment of their own embarrassing military weaknesses and their unwillingness to stand for the liberty of the brownish citizens of a far off land.

[Zman516]

ping

[mc6809e]

Morals ARE relative.

The trouble is that the left only emphasize that when they're criticizing those of us on the right.

The best thing to do is to hand it right back to them. After all, they have their own moral code, don't they?

Just tell them that their code is subjective and you don't have to bother with it. You have your own code.

The same idea works against them when cultural issues come up. Just tell them they don't understand your culture and that criticism of it is wrong, intolerant, and hateful. Use all the lefty-code they use against them.

Tell them, "my culture recognizes marriage between and man and a woman only and your forcing your culture on me! Don't be a cultural imperialist!"

[ClaireSolt]

We have been carrying them. Our deficit spending has pulled us out of recession, but they are still in deep. Different policies would have deepened recession to a world depression.

That's why we have such a bad trade deficit. They don't have any money to buy from us. The good news is that Japan is finally pulling out, after 10 years. France and Germany have experienced a 20% decline in GNP in ten years.

So when you ask if we would help, I say we already have.

[claudiustg]

---An excellent analysis. But it omits a couple of crucial factors. First, birth control and abortion. The European crisis is largely a demographic crisis. Muslims are flooding in because Europeans wanted cheap workers to replace the children they didn't have. ---

Substitute Americans and Mexicans.

[hardworking]

I wonder...did anyone write stuff like this at the threshold of the medieval period?

Actually even earlier. Take a look at some of the 'letters' in the New Testament.

[expatpat]

It could be worse -- you might end up living in the Republic of Quebec.

[expatpat]

Sic transit gloria mundi. ('So passes the glory of the world' -- on the fall of the Roman Empire)

[Frank_2001]

Excellent article!

[AFPhys]

"By the beginning of the 1990s, with America in apparent decline, it seemed a reasonable bet that this extraordinary [European] model of economic and political success would become an example to the world."

HuH? What the heck is this guy talking about? By 1988, it was more than clear that the US was going to completely whip the world economically, technologically, and militarily! Our economy was screaming ahead with no real end in sight! (despite any very minor slowdown)

I think you're right, CBB - he's missing some factors, but the article is effective in pointing out the economic aspects of the emerging European crisis.

It is worth getting people to read, but your take is even better.

[JasonC]

What kind of defeatist lazy bums consider willing workers abroad a "threat", rather than an opportunity?

[AFPhys]

Ping: You'll not want to miss this thread.

[Nyboe]

It's a good article but I have a small problem with it


The article states, quote :

"Under its expensive welfare programmes, paid for by a high level of productivity in traditional manufacturing industries, Europeans enjoyed a pampered life. With the Soviet threat gone, this accelerating prosperity further encouraged them to renounce the idea of war and military coercion, and they settled down to enjoy an assured future ascendancy.

By the beginning of the 1990s, with America in apparent decline, it seemed a reasonable bet that this extraordinary model of economic and political success would become an example to the world. But external and internal forces were already undermining this paradise.
"

um.. the Berlin wall came down in 1989... but the article says after the soviet threat was gone but before the tech revolution of the early 1990's Europeans were enjoying a pampered life with accelerating prosperity...

for what a year or two ? because that's the time span were talking about.

the other problem I have is ... when was America in decline in the early 1990's ? America has been in a economic boon since Reagan took office in the 80's, which accelerated after the republicans took over the legislative branches in the early 1990's.

[lainde]

bttt

[Polybius]

Forty-five years after the Second World War, continental Western Europe could plausibly claim to have created a kind of postmodern nirvana — a half-continent-wide zone of unparalleled prosperity, cushioned by an apparently permanent peace among some of the most historically murderous peoples on Earth.

That is called the Pax Americana.

[Enchante]

It used to be said that the Ottoman Empire was "the sick man of Europe."

NOW IT IS EUROPE THAT IS THE SICK MAN OF EUROPE!

[mysto]

bump for later reading