The importance of guns in democracy

[roncougar68]

Why are many republicans even afraid to stand up for gun rights? It is amazing to me that the judges in the our country can "interpret" the constitution in a manner that makes the common gun collector out to be a potential criminal. The criminals will get their guns just like they do their drugs. This is why I think gun ownership should be promoted. The founding fathers knew that the right to bear arms was the last defense to a really bad government. Our government officials are the ones trying to make it harder to own a gun. We need to stand out in defense of our rights, so that when you find out the reasoning behind the 2nd amendment, you are not a casualty of the lack there of.

[WonkyTonky]

Here in California, our "Republican" Governor, Gov. Arnold, signed in the 50 caliber ban. So this article seems on target to me. My husband and I are really ticked off about this. Gov. Arnold owns a Tank, yet he signed a bill banning 50 caliber guns. That's BS and we won't be voting for him again. This is my first post here at FR, hope I am doing this right!

[Route101]

If you are not a member of the NRA join, even if you do not own a gun...join for $10.00 and preserve our freedom.

[Kitanis]

"Thats cool and all, but I do not like how libertarians are fine with everything, as long as it makes you feel good. "

I do not know how you come up with this statement within the talk.. but what a Libertarian would believe in the 2nd Amendment circle is that no government office should have the right to impede a citizens right to own a firearm. That includes concealed carry permits etc.

I really think what your referring too is Liberals who make the claim anything is fine as long as you feel good.

A Libertarian's basic premise is that actions that affect ones own person or property are fine as long as it does not harm others is OK.

[ExSoldier]

Name one illegal gun law that's been repealed since Bush came into office.

Pick your favorite Pol of all time. Now name one illegal or Unconstitutional gun law that he was responsible for getting repealed. Zero. How about Ronald Reagan? What laws was HE responsible for overturning? Zero.

Once a bill becomes a LAW, barring a specific sunset clause as was the case in the AWB, they don't go away...ever. I keep hammering this into the heads of my students in my American Government and sociology classes. Only have five more days to finalize this and then it's summer vacation!

In todays political climate, as sensitive as the gun issue has become and with the UN breathing down our necks to help the DNC take our guns, the truly righteous pol (if there even exists such a creature) must walk a fine line for the Oval office. The real aim of every freedom loving voter should be to control both houses of Congress with veto proof majorities AND pack the USSC with young pro-gun justices! Who can help make sure that happens?

Roncougar68: What are you doing to further that goal besides whining here? Can you name a list of candidates in your area or lacking that (I used to be stationed at Fort Lewis, so I know the politics of your state)--in another region that you are actively supporting BEYOND the donation of money? Are you manning phone banks, volunteering to walk neighborhoods and knock on doors? Grassroots wins elections. I volunteer my time for a candidate of my choice in every level of election from school board to President. I hold signs at the polls and pass out literature. Folks, ya GOTTA get involved! Bad laws stay. So do bad executive orders and I can name a slew that both Clinton and Bush #41 signed that damaged this country severely.

Finally, remember all politics is local and the place to start is your own home town and state. Progun laws at those levels affect the rest of the nation like the proverbial stone in a still pond with the ripple effect. Look at my own state of Florida. WE passed the FIRST of the Shall Issue concealed carry laws. (I know, Indiana is claiming this, too) And since 1987, over 30 other states have used the Florida model to pass similar laws. Just a few weeks ago, our beloved Governor (a friend of mine) signed into law an expansion of the Castle Doctrine) stating that a person on the street with a legitimate reason to be in an area no longer MUST retreat when faced with violence and may respond with deadly force. Further that in such a case, where the shooting is found justifiable, any civil lawsuit against the defender by perpetrator or his estate, is barred and so is any type of prosecution by anti-gun DA's. I lobbied and fought for this law along with the rest of the progun people of this state. What are YOU doing?

[commonasdirt]

I was a NRA member but let my membership lapse. The most nnoying thing about them was the way they would make sure my mailbox was stuffed to overflowing with crap from them every week. The final straw was when they sent a membership renewal letter and made it appear to be an overdue bill. If they stop their junk mail practices I will consider joining again.

[Route101]

I agree with that part...my renewal is due in July and they send my renewal notice in May....Thats o.k....I just throw it away and renew on July 4th each year.....

[Tijeras_Slim]

Just write or call them and they'll stop the incessant fund raising letters.

[panaxanax]

Hey Mike, check this out if you haven't already.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1414055/posts

[MJY1288]

That bill needs to be voted down

[FraudFactor.com]

Answer to the Question:

Why Do Some Republicans Support Gun Control

By Michael D. Robbins, FraudFactor.com, June 2, 2005


It is absolutely certain that the Democrat party and politicians have been constantly attacking the Second Amendment and private firearms ownership by ordinary nonviolent citizens who do not commit crimes and do not have criminal intent. Banning and confiscating traditional firearms from the law abiding public is part of the Democrat agenda and platform.

The Republican party, other than some RINOs, does not have an anti-gun/anti-self-defense agenda or platform. The Republican party generally protects and votes against the dangerous Democrat-sponsored gun control laws that target and punish ordinary nonviolent citizens.

Thus, there is a huge difference between the Republicans and Democrats.

Vote Single Issue for Gun Rights

In fact, if you vote single-issue on gun rights you are almost always voting for the best candidate on the other important issues, including government and taxation, national defense, criminal justice and public safety, property rights, religious freedom, education, etc. Keep in mind that we have a two-party system and voting for a third party is almost always throwing your vote away or helping liberal (i.e., Socialist and Marxist) Democrats.

Also keep in mind that you are voting for the candidate's party as well as for the candidate, because the party leadership enforces party discipline and pressures their members into voting the party line on important votes where their votes are deciding votes. The party leadership may release members and allow them to vote in support of their constituency when their votes are not needed to form a majority. However, the votes that count will be voted in support of the party line. A failure to vote the party line may get party members booted off committees, resulting in office staff and budget cuts, as well as less campaign money in the next election.

Why the Democrat party supports gun control

Why do the Democrats support dangerous gun control laws that target, punish, and harass ordinary nonviolent citizens who have no criminal intent? Whey do the Democrats want to ban and confiscate privately owned firearms?

First and foremost, the Democrat party is using gun control to try to steal the crime issue away from the Republicans, and to claim that they are the real tough-on-crime party and the Republicans are soft-on-crime for not supporting their gun control laws.

The Democrat party has been the true liberal soft-on-crime party for many decades. They are more concerned about the welfare of violent criminals than of violent crime victims. Conversely, the Republicans have been the true tough-on-crime party, passing laws to target, punish, and restrain real criminals. The Democrats recognize that crime is one of the leading issues among voters and that they have been losing votes on this issue. Thus, they have used a well orchestrated strategy at all levels of government to integrate gun control into their campaign rhetoric and to pass increasingly restrictive gun control laws to bolster their false claims that they are tough-on-crime.

Why some Republicans support or fail to oppose gun control

Many Republican elected officials, candidates, and hired campaign strategists (i.e., political hacks) have been too incompetent to understand that the Democrats are using gun control to steal the crime issue from the Republicans. They also have been too incompetent to know how to preempt and counter this Democrat assault against Republicans and against America.

Campaign pollsters and strategists hired by Republican candidates typically advise the candidates to either support some gun control or avoid discussing the gun control issue altogether, or else they will lose votes.

This is dangerously incompetent advice. It fails to recognize that polls fail to measure intensity of feeling, or who will be involved in grass roots campaigns to support or defeat candidates. Also, typical opinion polls on gun control are fatally flawed and do not measure true public opinion.

It misses the opportunity to preempt the opposition with a strong and effective attack on the basis that gun control increases violent crime. And then it allows the Democrats to beat up on the Republicans without the Republicans even defending themselves.

Republicans who support gun control lose core constituency votes and cross-over voters

Also, Republicans who fail to publicly support the Second Amendment alienate core constituency voters and grass roots volunteers who stay home on election day or vote third party as a protest vote. They also alienate the crossover Democrat voters who are necessary to win many elections.

Those Republicans who publicly defend the Second Amendment often use a common but weak argument promoted by a national firearm owner organization. They argue that "gun control does not help and is just a feel-good law". This argument fails to get a majority to oppose gun control, because many people are willing to try more gun control if it might help and it can't hurt.

The winning campaign theme: "Gun control increases violent crime"

Instead, Republicans must argue the significantly more effective and well-supported position that "gun control increases violent crime and never reduces crime". This theme gets a majority to oppose gun control even in the more liberal parts of the country (yes, it has been tested in a real opinion poll). Under this theme, the default position is to oppose gun control unless it can be shown to be effective and not dangerous.

Republicans should also argue, as a secondary argument, that gun control is and always has been a racist and discriminatory policy, targeting minorities, the poor, women, the elderly, and the handicapped. This argument is well supported, and there are examples dating from 1640 to the Black Codes following the Civil War to the present. The first known "U.S." gun control law was passed in Georgia in 1640. It prohibited people of color from owning or possessing firearms.

Gun control also supports the overall leftist Democrat agenda

In addition to stealing the crime issue from the Republicans, the Democrat firearm confiscation agenda supports their overall agenda to seize more power from the citizens and move our nation incrementally toward the totalitarian state that these elitists view as their utopia.

Also, for Socialists and Marxists to change our existing democratic republic to their totalitarian state of "perfection", they must tear down our existing society including its institutions in order to build their replacement form of government and society. This is analogous to tearing down an existing building or structure in order to replace it with something entirely different and incompatible with the existing structure.

The last 25 years of scientific research shows that gun control increases violent crime. By increasing crime and chaos in our society, while rendering the citizens helpless and desperate, the Democrats can continue to use crime as an excuse to take away even more freedom and tax money from the people. Look at the red light camera systems and the police surveillance's cameras being installed in public places in cities controlled by Democrat party machines.

Another reason some politicians support gun control: Political Corruption

Some Democrats and RINO Republicans have supported gun control as part of a deal they cut with the Democrat party leadership. For example, in 1989, former California Governor (and RINO) George Deukmejian signed the Democrat-sponsored AB 357/SB292 (the Mike Roos/David Roberti ban on traditional firearms mislabeled as "assault weapons") as part of a deal. Willie Brown (Democrat Speaker of the Assembly) gave Deukmejian a spike in his pension, and the light rail transportation system that he wanted. AB 357 passed with a bare minimum majority of 41 out of 80 votes as I recall, with Steve Clute being a swing vote who was pressured to provide the needed last vote.

Conclusion

In conclusion, it is best to vote single-issue in support of gun rights, whether or not you own a firearm. By doing this, you will be voting for the best candidates on most if not all of the important issues. This almost always means you will be voting Republican.


 - FraudFactor.com

   Support redistricting reform to end gerrymandering and achieve better government.

[Shooter 2.5]

Like he said. We're working on it.

[Shooter 2.5]

Someone like you complains they get junk mail from the NRA and someone like me gets out the checkbook.

Are you too lazy to walk to the garbage can while others like me go door to door for their pro-gun candidates?

Whining you had a phone call from the NRA while someone like me is manning the phone banks for their candidates?

You might as well sell your gun. It must be too heavy and expensive for you to use.

[commonasdirt]

Ah.....judging from your posts it is clear that you are most likely a one issue person. I am also sure that you do not get your checkbook out for every single piece of junk mail request they send you. As far as phone calls from candidates, never get them, unlisted number and I screen with an answering machine anyway as well as being on the do not call list. I prefer reading up on issues and never make a decision on what one person reading from a prepared script has to say. Keep in mind until you are on the NRA board of directors you are just another member. Be sure to let us all know when that happens. And as far as gun ownership goes I will keep mine, with or without the approval of the almighty Shooter 2.5. But there is more to life and politics than gun issues. The weekend is almost here, and tomorrow I am heading to the river. If you want to stay and "clean your gun"....have at it.

[Paul_Denton]

Welcome to Free Republic. The Assault Weapons Ban has been allowed to sunset but the libs are still at it, now trying to ban the 50 caliber.

[roncougar68]

small but potent

[roncougar68]

My problem is not limited to guns, it is the way we are pandering to the libs on issues we dont need to. Bush and the others were voted in by the people in this nation who have seen what the liberals are made and want something different, so why do we need to pander? All it does is make us look weak. We need to hold a hard line when it comes to our values, which include constitutional rights, border security, stem cell research, and if you are going to step into something big step in with both feet and your eyes open, (and the willingness to sacrifice bombs for the lives of your soldiers.

[roncougar68]

Arnold won't be taking my .50 cal

[roncougar68]

I am working 60-70 hours a week as a crane mechanic and operator, spending time with my family when I am not at work, trying to get a home loan, getting ready for a new baby, raising a 3 year old.
My point is that I vote my conscience, and I expect the people I vote for to stand up for what got them elected. I know what you are saying, you won't get elected if you are a hard liner. So it is okay to stay with the status quo? That is our problem, when the dems get into power they push so much stuff down our throats that we are playing defensive, (and the public is tired of them and they vote in a republican), then when we get in we try to play nice. There would be no talk of 3rd parties if we could keep ours on the right. This is the plan of the libs, they are getting what they want, even when we are in power.

[roncougar68]

I know, 50 cal sounds kind of mean, it might make some kid get A.D.D or something.

[Rockingham]

Have you ever heard of Machiavelli's metaphor of the lion and the fox? The Prince -- any political strategist -- has to be both a lion and a fox: like a lion in having strength and courage to defeat enemies in open fights; but since lions can be trapped and snared by the weak but cunning, the Prince must also be like a fox in being able to detect and avoid traps and snares and set them for his own purposes.

By temperament, most conservatives are lions. Think of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan. We want stand up fights, with fair rules, honorable conduct, and clear decisions. But we are also prone to fall into traps, with the unscrupulous on the Left winning against us. Think of LBJ -- and the shellacking that he gave Goldwater in 1964.

Of course, too many times, Republicans are neither smart like foxes nor strong like lions. We sometimes act like well-mannered kids from prep school who wander into a bad neighborhood. Five minutes later, local delinquents have ripped the crests off the prep kids' blazers, stolen their lunch money, goosed the girls, and sent them all running away in tears and terror. A this very moment, in my imagination, I see these prep kids and recognize George Voinovich and John Warner among them.

A basic rule of politics and life is to pick your fights. Resources are always more limited than the fights available, and you cannot fight everywhere at the same time or be at your best in more than a few fights at a time.

Are Bush and his administration and the Congressional Republicans acting like a lion or like a fox? I think that they have a good measure of both and are getting it right on most issues and picking the right ones to push. We are regularly picking up 35 to 40 or so Democratic votes on major issues in the House. The Senate is dodgy, but they will be most vulnerable to pressure next year when election looms.

I have two major concerns:

(1) Massive illegal immigration, which has proceeded with the Bush administration's complicity. This is wrong in principle and is stirring up anger and disillusionment that is already weakening Bush and the Republican party.

(2) Bush's odd passivity for long stretches of time and poor attention to everyday political tasks: Congressional relations; White House media operations; pushing key appointments and getting the right people in place quickly; and dominating the media news cycle.

Do not get dispirited though because in politics, most things are badly screwed up. Progress takes time and even when you are winning, that may not be apparent until much later. The Democrats are doing much worse then we are.