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Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism (Pope Bound for Hell).
Knoxville News-Sentinel Co. ^ | April 13, 2005 | JEANNINE F. HUNTER

Posted on 04/14/2005 12:00:51 PM PDT by Dean Baker

Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism By JEANNINE F. HUNTER, hunter@knews.com April 13, 2005

NEWPORT, Tenn. - Two days after being posted, a church marquee message that questions the purpose of the papacy is still attracting attention in this small community.

"What I am trying to do is to let people know there's only one way to heaven through Jesus Christ," said the Rev. Cline Franklin, pastor of Hilltop Baptist Church. "There's no need for help. God sent his son, Jesus Christ. We're all priests if we're saved. I don't need to go to anybody else to pray."

The sign's side facing Broadway, the main thoroughfare in Newport, reads, "No truth, No hope Following a hell-bound pope!" On the other side, facing the church parking lot, it reads: "False hope in a fake pope."

The message appeared days after Pope John Paul II's funeral last week.

"It is unfortunate when it comes from within the Christian church. It's really sad," said the Rev. Dan Whitman, 54, pastor of Newport's Good Shepherd Catholic parish and Holy Trinity parish in Jefferson City. "You learn how to deal with it and pray not to be that way yourself."

It does not reflect mainstream Baptist thought, said Dr. Merrill "Mel" Hawkins, associate professor of religion and director of the Center for Baptist Studies at Carson-Newman College in Jefferson City.

"When you see signs like that, they are almost like relics or artifacts of a bygone era," Hawkins said.

He spoke about animus between Protestants and Catholics persisting after the Protestant Reformation and for centuries, during which "harsh things were said, couched within misperceptions, misunderstandings."

Among the major misperceptions is that Catholics "venerate the pope on the same level as Jesus," Hawkins said, and that "the pope is connected to their salvation in place of Jesus Christ."

Catholics make up about 12 percent of the population in the South.

"Catholics are a minority faith in the South, and there's often bias toward minority religious communities because people don't understand," he said.

James Gaddis, a lay speaker who also chairs the board at First United Methodist Church, said he had not seen the sign but had heard about it.

"I understand that it's very degrading," he said. "I think it's tragic that any church group would stoop to this posture."

Following Tuesday night's council meeting, Newport Mayor Roland Dykes Jr. said he was a little saddened by the message.

"It doesn't behoove any of us to determine who is going to heaven or hell. I think the pope is a highly, highly respected person," he said.

Franklin's church is a five-year-old independent Baptist church. When asked what the message meant, he said: "What does 'pope' mean? It means father. We have a heavenly father, and the Bible says we shall call no man a father. "

He said people have been driving by or taking pictures or calling to share their views. He said the intent was not to offend Catholics and people are misunderstanding the sign.

Copyright 2005, Knoxville News-Sentinel Co.


TOPICS: Front Page News
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To: adiaireton8

Will you bow your knee to Christ?
******
NOT your christ!

"Jesus said, many will come saying I am the Christ (exactly what you are doing...saying he is the Christ) but in their ways they will deny me."

Your system's ways deny him...your pagan practices deny him.

It is anti-christ.


1,281 posted on 04/23/2005 8:28:30 AM PDT by BriarBey ("He Who Does Not Remember History Is Condemned To Repeat It")
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To: jwh_Denver

Hell is "sheol" in Hebrew which simply is the place of the dead; 6 feet under.

*******

AAAWWW....a small breeze of TRUTH!! :)



1,282 posted on 04/23/2005 8:30:02 AM PDT by BriarBey ("He Who Does Not Remember History Is Condemned To Repeat It")
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To: jwh_Denver
You apparently know neither the Scriptures nor Church history very well.

Peter's ministry was strictly to the Jewish Christians.

Do you think that Cornelius was a Jew? (Acts 10) Do you think the people upon whom the Spirit fell after hearing Peter's preaching were Jews? (Acts 10:44-48)

Peter wrote the book of 1 Peter from Rome (1 Pet 5:13), traditionally during the period between AD 42 (when he left for "another place", Acts 12:17) and AD 50 when he returned to Jerusalem for the first ecumenical council described in Acts 15). There is myriad of evidence that he died in Rome as well, around 67AD under Nero, being crucified upside down (according to both Tertullian and Origen, both 2nd century Fathers). Eusebius records Peter's episcopate in Rome as being 25 years in length. And Jerome reports that Peter came to Rome under Claudius in 42AD.

If by "Pope" you mean the chief bishop, the one having the keys of the kingdom of heaven", then yes, Peter was the first Pope.

-A8

1,283 posted on 04/23/2005 8:39:39 AM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: adiaireton8

this distinction was unheard of before the Reformation
*****
Wrong....Rome was killing true Christians before 313 A.D. when Constintine united the pagan temples with christianity and called it Roman Catholic. THEN THE DARK AGES..... one of the darkest times known to mankind because of the truth being joined to the pagan lies, and idolotry.

Reformation....once again a glimmer of truth out of darkness, altho they were still daughters and carried alot of the RCC doctrines out with them...they were still breaking free. Rome lost her full power, FOR A WHILE. The light of the true gospel once more would shine on the earth and protestant nations would grow. Nations who are predominately catholic are third world poor, under developed nations and so shall this country be.

The anti-christ..."Once was, is not, and is again."

The "is again" is upon us.


1,284 posted on 04/23/2005 8:41:10 AM PDT by BriarBey ("He Who Does Not Remember History Is Condemned To Repeat It")
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To: jwh_Denver

The Trinity
****
Trinity...also RCC doctrine of devils....actually IHS..Isis, Horis and Seb...the egyptian trinity. PAGAN


1,285 posted on 04/23/2005 8:47:15 AM PDT by BriarBey ("He Who Does Not Remember History Is Condemned To Repeat It")
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To: adiaireton8

THIS is NECESSARY suffering?


Sounds like a MISSION, to me....


1,286 posted on 04/23/2005 8:48:42 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: adiaireton8

Dang, I don't know.

If the RCC is so authentic, why are there so many different points of view within it?


1,287 posted on 04/23/2005 8:49:42 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: BriarBey
NOT your christ!

There is only one Christ. Will you bow your knee to the only true Christ, Jesus of Nazereth, born of the virgin Mary?

"Jesus said, many will come saying I am the Christ (exactly what you are doing...saying he is the Christ) but in their ways they will deny me."

That is not a verse in the Bible. I don't know where you got it, but it is not in the Bible.

In Matthew 1:1, Matthew writes, "A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the son of David". So Matthew calls Jesus "Christ". So, was Matthew mistaken?

In Matthew 16:16, when Peter says to Christ, "You are the Christ", was Peter mistaken? What exactly was that rock upon which Jesus was going to build His church. You are apparently claiming that those who say that Jesus is the Christ are wrong, but all the Apostles say that Jesus is the Christ. The whole New Testament says that Jesus is the Christ. Do you deny that Jesus of Nazareth, who was born of the virgin Mary, is the Christ?

-A8

1,288 posted on 04/23/2005 8:52:01 AM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: Elsie
If the RCC is so authentic, why are there so many different points of view within it?

The authenticity of the RCC is not in any way challenged by different points of view within it, since the authenticity of the RCC is fully compatible with their being differing points of view within it. The perspicuity of Scripture is, however, undermined by the existence of 30,000 denominations.

-A8

1,289 posted on 04/23/2005 8:56:01 AM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: Pelayo
The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ,
 
 
OH??
 
News to me! (and Paul)
1 Corinthians 11:27-29
 27.  Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.
 28.  A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup.
 29.  For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.
 
Paul goes on, in the very next chapter, to explain exactly what he means by "the body of the Lord".
 
 
 Corinthians 12
 1.  Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant.
 2.  You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols.
 3.  Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
 4.  There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit.
 5.  There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord.
 6.  There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.
 7.  Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
 8.  To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
 9.  to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
 10.  to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,  and to still another the interpretation of tongues.
 11.  All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
 12.  The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ.
 13.  For we were all baptized by  one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
 14.  Now the body is not made up of one part but of many.
 15.  If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body.
 16.  And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body.
 17.  If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be?
 18.  But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be.
 19.  If they were all one part, where would the body be?
 20.  As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
 21.  The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!"
 22.  On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable,
 23.  and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty,
 24.  while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it,
 25.  so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other.
 26.  If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
 27.  Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.
 28.  And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.
 29.  Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
 30.  Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues ? Do all interpret?
 31.  But eagerly desire  the greater gifts.   And now I will show you the most excellent way.
 
 
 




 
 
 
 
...when we are baptized into the Church we are baptized into His death.
 
Tell this to Philip and the eunuch...
 
Acts Chapter 8
 
 32.  The eunuch was reading this passage of Scripture: "He was led like a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb before the shearer is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
 33.  In his humiliation he was deprived of justice. Who can speak of his descendants? For his life was taken from the earth."
 34.  The eunuch asked Philip, "Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?"
 35.  Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.
 36.  As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?"
 38.  And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.
 39.  When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.


1,290 posted on 04/23/2005 8:56:29 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Elsie
Does a "cross" sound "comfortable" to you?

-A8

1,291 posted on 04/23/2005 8:57:16 AM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: jwh_Denver
The whole concept of an eternal hell fire and brimstone just doesn't line up with the Scriptures.

HUH????

1,292 posted on 04/23/2005 8:57:31 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: adiaireton8

"But an invisible Church can have no visible authority. So, your use of the Bible contradicts your claim that Christ did not found a visible Church."

Rom 12:5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Col 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

No, the Church of Christ (not the denomination) is Scriptually invisible, at least to the naked eye but can be seen spiritually. Jesus Christ is the head of the Church and Christians are considered members of his body. Jesus Christ is THEE authority of his church and his body. He did not leave the "keys of authority" to any man or church but himself. Why should he have? Mankind has shown he cannot be sinless so only Christ has those "keys". Thank God.

The word "catholic" means the "universal Church". That's why I never call the Catholic church by any other name than the Roman Catholic church. They are simply a splinter group off of Christianity. Personally I think way off.

You talk like the RCC's are the one and only church and that all others will not be in communion until they join up with the RCC's. That's true but it won't be in communion with Christ as that is the only real Communion.


1,293 posted on 04/23/2005 8:58:59 AM PDT by jwh_Denver (The Good News of the Gospel of Christ really is Good News!)
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To: jwh_Denver
Is Jesus of Nazareth...

GOD?


1,294 posted on 04/23/2005 9:00:03 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: adiaireton8
If by "Pope" you mean the chief bishop, the one having the keys of the kingdom of heaven", then yes, Peter was the first Pope.
 



NIV Matthew 16:13-23

 
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" 
 
They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."  
 
"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" 

Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 

Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.  And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 

I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be  bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." 
Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ. 

From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
 

Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. "Never, Lord!" he said. "This shall never happen to you!" 

 Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."

 
Since there is no 'real' key; but merely a 'virtual' one (or set: the Scripture says, "KEYS") what shall we make of the fact that Jesus was talking to ALL the disciples here; and impetuous PETER jumps in with an answer, the question becomes:
 
"To whom is the
you spoken about refer?"
 
Is it ONLY to Peter; or is it to ALL of them?
 

1,295 posted on 04/23/2005 9:03:17 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: adiaireton8
What exactly was that rock upon which Jesus was going to build His church.
 

 
Is Peter the 'rock'?
 


NIV Matthew 4:18-19
 18.  As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen.
 19.  "Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."
 
NIV Matthew 8:14
 14.  When Jesus came into Peter's house, he saw Peter's mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever.
 
NIV Matthew 10:1-2
 1.  He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil  spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
 2.  These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;
 
NIV Matthew 14:28-31
 28.  "Lord, if it's you," Peter replied, "tell me to come to you on the water."
 29.  "Come," he said.   Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus.
 30.  But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, "Lord, save me!"
 31.  Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. "You of little faith," he said, "why did you doubt?"
 
NIV Matthew 15:13-16
 13.  He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
 14.  Leave them; they are blind guides.  If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."
 15.  Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."
 16.  "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.
 

As you can see, Simon was already known as 'Peter'
BEFORE the following verses came along.....


NIV Matthew 16:13-18
 13.  When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
 14.  They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
 15.  "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
 16.  Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,  the Son of the living God."
 17.  Jesus replied, "
Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
 18.  And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades  will not overcome it.
 19.  I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be  bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:4
 4.  and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
 
NIV Luke 6:48
 48.  He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.
 
NIV Romans 9:33
 33.  As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
 
 
 
NIV 1 Peter 2:4-8
 4.  As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him--
 5.  you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
 6.  For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
 7.  Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, "
 8.  and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for.


But, since there WAS no NT at the time Christ spoke to Peter, just what DID Peter and the rest of the Disciples know about ROCKS???

 

NIV Genesis 49:24-25
24.  But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel,
 25.  because of your father's God, who helps you, because of the Almighty,  who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies below, blessings of the breast and womb.
 
NIV Numbers 20:8
 8.  "Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink."
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:4
 4.  He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:15
 15.  Jeshurun  grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior.
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:18
 18.  You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:30-31
 30.  How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up?
 31.  For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede.
 
NIV 1 Samuel 2:2
 2.  "There is no one holy  like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.
 
NIV 2 Samuel 22:2-3
 2.  He said: "The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer;
 3.  my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn  of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior-- from violent men you save me.
 
NIV 2 Samuel 22:32
 32.  For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
 
NIV 2 Samuel 22:47
 47.  "The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior!
 
NIV 2 Samuel 23:3-4
 3.  The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: `When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God,
 4.  he is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth.'
 
NIV Psalms 18:2
 2.  The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn  of my salvation, my stronghold.
 
NIV Psalms 18:31
 31.  For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
 
NIV Psalms 18:46
 46.  The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior!
 
NIV Psalms 19:14
 14.  May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.
 
NIV Psalms 28:1
 
 1.  To you I call, O LORD my Rock; do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who have gone down to the pit.
 
NIV Psalms 31:2-3
 2.  Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me.
 3.  Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me.
 
NIV Psalms 42:9
 9.  I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?"
 
NIV Psalms 62:2
 2.  He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.
 
NIV Psalms 62:6
 6.  He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.
 
NIV Psalms 62:7
 7.  My salvation and my honor depend on God ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge.
 
NIV Psalms 71:3
 3.  Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress.
 
NIV Psalms 78:35
 35.  They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer.
 
NIV Psalms 89:26
 26.  He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.'
 
NIV Psalms 92:14-15
 14.  They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green,
 15.  proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him."
 
NIV Psalms 95:1
 1.  Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.
 
NIV Psalms 144:1
 1.  Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.
 
NIV Isaiah 17:10
 10.  You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress.
 
NIV Isaiah 26:4
 4.  Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal.
 
NIV Isaiah 30:29
29.  And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people go up with flutes to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel.
 
NIV Isaiah 44:8
 8.  Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." 
 
NIV Habakkuk 1:12
 12.  O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish.

.....No other rock.............
 
And now you know the Biblical position!

1,296 posted on 04/23/2005 9:06:37 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: adiaireton8
 
 

 authenticity of the RCC is not in any way challenged by different points of view within it, since the authenticity of the RCC is fully compatible with their being differing points of view within it.  The perspicuity of Scripture is, however, undermined by the existence of 30,000 denominations. What??????? 
 
perspicuity
 
Main Entry: per·spic·u·ous
Pronunciation: p&r-'spi-ky&-w&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin perspicuus transparent, perspicuous, from perspicere
: plain to the understanding especially because of clarity and precision of presentation <a perspicuous argument>
synonym see CLEAR
- per·spi·cu·ity /"p&r-sp&-'kyü-&-tE/ noun
- per·spic·u·ous·ly /p&r-'spi-ky&-w&s-lE/ adverb
- per·spic·u·ous·ness noun
 

1,297 posted on 04/23/2005 9:10:27 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Elsie
...when we are baptized into the Church we are baptized into His death.

Tell this to Philip and the eunuch...

Elsie, how does the account of the eunuch's baptism refute the claim that when we are baptized into the Church, we are baptized into Christ's death?

For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body (1 Cor 12:13)

And he is the head of the body, the church. (Col 1:18)

for the sake of his body, which is the church (Col 1:24)

"Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?" (Romans 6:3)

-A8

1,298 posted on 04/23/2005 9:10:34 AM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: adiaireton8
Stop wasting your time, the ground is barren -the rabid are blinded by hate like moral liberals they corrupt in selfish pursuit and thus attack that which objectively holds truth so that they may justify themselves. Whether it be abortion, contraception, divorce, priestesses etcetera -the truth is simple -those who set themselves apart from the teaching of the Church set themselves outside the Church...
1,299 posted on 04/23/2005 9:16:59 AM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: jwh_Denver
No, the Church of Christ (not the denomination) is Scriptually invisible, at least to the naked eye but can be seen spiritually.

Where do you get this notion? It is not in the Bible. Nor did any of the Church Fathers hold it. Apparently, the Apostles forgot to tell them? Did Christ let His Church slip into mass confusion for 1500 years? Even though He promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against it, and that He would send the Spirit to guide it? Really?

Jesus Christ is the head of the Church and Christians are considered members of his body.

Catholics have never denied this.

Jesus Christ is THEE authority of his church and his body.

Apparently, you mean to say that Christ is the only authority of His Church (since Catholics believe that Christ is the highest authority of His Church). Do you think the Apostles had no authority? Do you think the bishops which the Apostles appointed in every city to which they travelled (as the New Testament records) had no authority? How then could there be church discipline, and casting out of heretics and evil-doers, if there was no human authority in the Church while Christ is in heaven?

-A8

1,300 posted on 04/23/2005 9:38:15 AM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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