Posted on 01/26/2005 9:46:21 AM PST by 7thson
When I pulled into the parking lot this morning, I saw a car covered with sacrilegious bumper stickers. It seemed obvious to me that the owner was craving attention. I’m sure he was also seeking to elicit anger from people of faith. The anger helps the atheist to justify his atheism. And, all too often, the atheist gets exactly what he is looking for.
(Excerpt) Read more at townhall.com ...
You are welcome. Believe it or not, that book and the epistemological constructions derived from it put quite a dent in Objectivist thought. Not that Objectivism is so terrible, but it does have a weakness or two that become more obvious after reading the book. There is quite a bit of irony that atheists have used a philosophy book written by a theologian to invalidate Objectivism as an epistemology. Bartley is generally credited with authoring the post-Objectivist epistemology, often called "pan-critical rationalism" among many other names.
The origin of Bartley's work was that he was trying to resolve what he (correctly) perceived to be weaknesses in the rationality of Christianity as pointed out by Objectivists et al. He agreed that the arguments provided by other theologians for the rationality of Christianity were technically poor, but considered that to be largely a reflection of the arguments rather than Christianity per se. He ended up developing an important new epistemological framework that is not only excellent from an academic/technical standpoint, but which provided a general proof that a belief in Christianity is not necessarily irrational. Which was his original goal, finding previous arguments to be technically unsatisfactory (which they really were).
I can say that because it doesn't depend on me. It depends on Jesus. My pride is in Jesus, not my own works. And God doesn't have a problem with that.
Hebrews 10:23 - Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
2 Timothy 1:12 - For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
Romans 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
And I'm in good company.
Christians don't agree on every bit of theology. That's why there are different denominations.
Do you agree with other atheists on everything?
Thinking Christians prefer to concentrate on that which unites us. The things we agree upon are more important than the things we differ on.
"How to talk to an atheist? Ask them, Where did the tree come from? Then, Where did the seed come from? No matter what they answer, you say, And you believe that?"
And the atheist will ask you where your deity came from. Same answer. I don't know. The logic is the same.
Where does an atheist get his "morals" from? Does he just make his own rules?
One can also choose to make it difficult. Non-Christians like to point to extreme examples and pretend that it's the norm. Yes, there are those that don't "walk the talk" but the same could be said of politics. Just because there are liberal republicans doesn't mean that conservatives and/or the GOP doesn't offer far superior ideas.
What makes you think I'm an atheist?
I would assume, that 'to love God with all one's being' would actually entail good deeds toward man. I would hope most atheists acted in the same way.
Could you and I be doing the same things, but motivated by different passions? Would your God not be equally honored by my deeds, or would they not be worthy since not motivated by a desire to love God?
Nope. Committing such acts greatly increases the risk to yourself and your potential progeny, at no gain.
You stand corrected.
"He ended up developing an important new epistemological framework that is not only excellent from an academic/technical standpoint, but which provided a general proof that a belief in Christianity is not necessarily irrational."
Yes. An excellent book, and one that all atheists should read, if they haven't already.
A belief in Christianity isn't "necessarily" irrational, to be sure. Many very intelligent people believe in it. A nonbelief in deities and other supernatural entities is also not necessarily irrational. Many intelligent people disbelieve.
Bartley is an excellent, if somewhat dry, read. I highly recommend the book.
We agree.
I'm curious. Can you elaborate?
Ok, so you aren't?
Six of one, half-dozen of the other. A distinction without a difference, technically. Not that it stops people from attributing extra-definitional attributes to these two words...
No. I'm a Deist, mostly.
The point I was trying to make is that while you attribute your actions to the guidance of the Holy Spirit, others may do the exact same things and be able to do so independent of any religious context. You may believe differently...why can't they? You may not agree, but it doesn't make it illogical, necessarily, to believe you can do good without believing in God. It doesn't make sense to you, because you live your life with the Bible and faith in God as your guide. If something like that frames your interactions with others and the world, anything else can seem irrational by comparison. (As a side note, and not to accuse you of doing such...that kind of thing is also what can make it difficult for others to "put themselves in someone else's shoes". It's very hard to accomplish when you have a very different frame of reference.)
To answer your other question...yes, I do try to do the right thing, and yes, I too, fall short more often than I would like. I am a sinner, expected to sin, and so that is no surprise. I do try not to repeat my mistakes, so I hope that counts for something. I also believe that God made me so that I would find certain things to be innately wrong, and compel me to act accordingly. I also believe that God gave us free will, and included in that is the ability to reject Him. They may pay for it in the end, but I can accept and even understand why they cannot accept His existence. They don't call it faith for nothing:)
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