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Finding common ground between God and evolution ("Theory is greater than facts)
Seattle Times ^ | Jan 25, 2005 | Froma Harrop

Posted on 01/25/2005 6:15:41 PM PST by gobucks

Ken Miller is an interesting guy. He is co-author of the nation's best-selling biology textbook. It was on his book, "Biology," that schools in Cobb County, Ga., slapped a sticker casting doubt on its discussion of evolution theory. And it was this sticker that a federal judge recently ordered removed because it endorsed religion. Miller, who testified against the label, gets a lot of hate mail these days.

But Miller is also a practicing Roman Catholic. "I attend Mass every Sunday morning," he said, "and I'm tired of being called an atheist."

A professor of biology at Brown University, Miller does not believe that Charles Darwin's theory of evolution contradicts the creation passages in the Bible. And he will argue the point till dawn.

"None of the six creative verses (in Genesis) describe an out-of-nothing, puff-of-smoke creation," he says. "All of them amount to a command by the creator for the earth, the soil and the water of this planet to bring forth life. And that's exactly what natural history tells us happened." (Miller has written a book on the subject: "Finding Darwin's God: A Scientist's Search for Common Ground Between God and Evolution.")

Still, today's emotional conflicts over teaching this science in public schools leave the impression that Christianity and evolution cannot be reconciled. This is not so.

In 1996, Pope John II wrote a strong letter to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences supporting the scientific understanding of evolution. That's one reason why students in Catholic parochial schools get a more clearheaded education in evolution science than do children at many public schools racked by the evolution debate.

American parents who want Darwin's name erased from the textbooks might be surprised at the father of evolution's burial spot. Darwin was laid to rest in Westminster Abbey, an Anglican church and England's national shrine.

Not every illustrious Englishman gains admission to an abbey burial site. Darwin died in 1882. Two years before, friends of George Eliot wanted the famous (female) writer laid to rest at the abbey. Eliot had lived immorally, according to the church fathers, and was denied a place. (She is buried at London's Highgate Cemetery, not far from Karl Marx.)

But Darwin had been an upright man. The clergy were proud both of Darwin's accomplishments and of their own comfort with modern science.

In 1882, during the memorial service for the great evolutionist, one church leader after the other rose to praise Charles Darwin. Canon Alfred Barry, for one, had recently delivered a sermon declaring that Darwin's theory was "by no means alien to the Christian religion."

Nowadays, Catholics and old-line Protestants have largely made peace with evolution theory. Most objections come from evangelicals — and not all of them.

Francis S. Collins is head of the National Genome Project and a born-again Christian. He belongs to the American Scientific Affiliation — a self-described fellowship of scientists "who share a common fidelity to the word of God and a commitment to integrity in the practice of science." Its Web address is www.asa3.org.

But back in Cobb County, the debate rages. The sticker taken off Miller's textbook read: "This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered."

Why should Miller care that the Cobb County School Board — having bought his book in great quantity — pastes those words on the cover?

First off, he says, "It implies that facts are things we are certain of and theories are things that are shaky." In science, theory is a higher level of understanding than facts, he notes. "Theories don't grow up to become facts. Rather, theories explain facts."

Then, he questions why, of all the material in his book, only evolution is singled out for special consideration. Miller says that if he could write the sticker, it would say, "Everything in this book should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered."

Clearly, many religious people regard evolution theory with sincere and heartfelt concern. But theirs is not a mainstream view — even among practicing Christians. Most theologians these days will argue that the biology book and the Good Book are reading from the same page.

Providence Journal columnist Froma Harrop's column appears regularly on editorial pages of The Times. Her e-mail address is fharrop@projo.com


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: commonground; creation; creationism; crevolist; darwin; evolution
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To: phoenix0468

Thank you. I have been reading several threads these past few weeks where many many freepers basically say "evolution is "more than fact" - but you don't see them add your thoughtful rejoinder.

It has been quite illuminating....


21 posted on 01/25/2005 6:50:08 PM PST by gobucks (http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/classics/students/Ribeiro/laocoon.htm)
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To: Strategerist

Exactly. When I studied Music Theory I was not reviewing someone's hypothesis about musical structure, I was having music and composition explained to me.


22 posted on 01/25/2005 6:50:27 PM PST by Finny (God continue to Bless President G.W. Bush with wisdom, popularity, safety and success.)
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To: Strategerist

"Theories explain sets of facts."

Maybe, perhaps, if, probably, possibly, etc...........


23 posted on 01/25/2005 6:51:19 PM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: gobucks

It has always baffled me how any scientist could refute the scientific method, a foundation that has been the basis of progression of every science known to man. Before the scientific method most science was bunk; based on conjecture, coincidence, and papal decrees. And what do you know, this article pretty much covers the gamut with evolution. ROFLMFAO!!!


24 posted on 01/25/2005 6:57:46 PM PST by phoenix0468 (One man with courage is a majority. (Thomas Jefferson))
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To: gobucks

25 posted on 01/25/2005 6:58:06 PM PST by ThinkPlease (Fortune Favors the Bold!)
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To: Strategerist

Ok, again, what you are describing is evidence not facts. Theories explain evidence, which when the evidence holds up in testing and research becomes fact, facts then help validate theories, which eventually, in very very few cases become what is know in science as a Tautology, or truth. If you studied the scientific method you would know this.


26 posted on 01/25/2005 7:00:20 PM PST by phoenix0468 (One man with courage is a majority. (Thomas Jefferson))
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To: gobucks

My problem with evolution is that it's junk science.

We can argue the issue all day, and we often have. But there's enough doubt about the General Theory of Evolution so biology books should present it as a theory, not a fact. I don't see why that is so difficult to accept. I have no problem with teaching kids about evolution, which is now an important part of modern intellectual history. But it really should be taught as a theory.

Even if evolution becomes discredited as science, it still should be taught as an important piece of scientific and intellectual history, like phrenology or racial theory.

Of equal interest is the effect that evolutionary theory has had on politics and other fields. It was largely responsible for the euthanasia movement under the early Communists and under Hitler, for instance. That's not Darwin's fault, but "survival of the fittest" has undergone some pretty nasty political turns.

It was also responsible for the widely held view that Africa and Asia were full of "lesser breeds," a commonly held view a hundred years ago. Again, not Darwin's fault, but part of the big picture.


27 posted on 01/25/2005 7:00:27 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: ThinkPlease

Where are the deer? And rabbits?


28 posted on 01/25/2005 7:03:51 PM PST by gobucks (http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/classics/students/Ribeiro/laocoon.htm)
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To: Cicero

BTT (broken twig trailmarker)


29 posted on 01/25/2005 7:03:54 PM PST by Hegemony Cricket (Another yappy customer...)
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To: phoenix0468
...freaked out at the arrogance of a scientist saying that evolution is "more than fact" ...

1. You are confusing the word "theory" with "hypothesis." Dictionaries note that the popoular use of the word "theory" is "conjecture, guess." Science has a different meaning for the word -- "theory" is "a systematic statement of principals involved, as in the theory of equations in mathematics." Natural selection is a fact -- How do you think viruses and bacteria become immune to vaccines? Evolutionary theory does what Quantum Theory or Music Theory does -- it explains interactions.

2. What about the arrogance of theologians, who are as mortal, subjective, and interested as any scientist, pretending to be the end-all and be-all as to how the rest of us mere peons interpret the Bible? Nothing in evolution negates the moral teachings of Christ, the seven deadly sins, the ten commandments, etc. Evolution doesn't challenge God, it challenges men.

30 posted on 01/25/2005 7:04:07 PM PST by Finny (God continue to Bless President G.W. Bush with wisdom, popularity, safety and success.)
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To: VadeRetro; Junior; longshadow; RadioAstronomer; Doctor Stochastic; js1138; Shryke; RightWhale; ...
EvolutionPing
A pro-evolution science list with over 220 names. See list's description at my homepage. FReepmail to be added/dropped.

31 posted on 01/25/2005 7:04:26 PM PST by PatrickHenry (<-- Click on my name. The List-O-Links for evolution threads is at my freeper homepage.)
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To: Finny

No Finny, you were having the theories behind what makes music and composition explained to you. But, of course like evolutionists, it was apparently crammed down your throat as fact. This is very disturbing as the science of music is in many areas constantly advancing and now even being connected to mathematical theories such as chaos and string theory. Music theory, just like evolution is just that and will probably remain a theory.


32 posted on 01/25/2005 7:06:02 PM PST by phoenix0468 (One man with courage is a majority. (Thomas Jefferson))
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To: Cicero
Even if evolution becomes discredited as science, it still should be taught as an important piece of scientific and intellectual history, like phrenology or racial theory.

Insightful. I would add another subject to the list that should be taught to kids as part of the big picture of evolution and its historical impact: eugenics and an honest biography of Margaret Sanger.

33 posted on 01/25/2005 7:07:10 PM PST by gobucks (http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/classics/students/Ribeiro/laocoon.htm)
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To: All
What's a Scientific Theory? Encyclopedia article.
Evolution as Fact and Theory by Stephen Jay Gould.
34 posted on 01/25/2005 7:08:05 PM PST by PatrickHenry (<-- Click on my name. The List-O-Links for evolution threads is at my freeper homepage.)
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To: ThinkPlease

Bwah - ha hahahah!! Good one!


35 posted on 01/25/2005 7:09:11 PM PST by Finny (God continue to Bless President G.W. Bush with wisdom, popularity, safety and success.)
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To: All

So anyone know if this guy's book "Finding Darwin's God: A Scientist's Search for Common Ground Between God and Evolution" is any good?


36 posted on 01/25/2005 7:10:24 PM PST by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
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To: gobucks
Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else.

Theistic evolutionist need to look beyond Genesis to realize He set this place up for immediate inhabitation. Vegetables and all.

There is a whole lot of twisting going on to reconcile the Bible to a faulty interpretation they sell as science.

37 posted on 01/25/2005 7:11:49 PM PST by bondserv (Sincerity with God is the most powerful instigator for change! † [Check out my profile page])
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To: phoenix0468
This is very disturbing as the science of music is in many areas constantly advancing and now even being connected to mathematical theories such as chaos and string theory.

String theory!! You mean the one that just added another dimension so that it doesn't come, ahem, untied? (It is now up to 12 dimensions!! Darwin would be proud of his fellow 'scientists').

The science of music. never gave this much thought before ... got any interesting links?

{{Speaking of links, a golfer once wrote long ago: "science is the art of elimination" *(sounds of struggles to contain chuckling....*)}}

38 posted on 01/25/2005 7:12:10 PM PST by gobucks (http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/classics/students/Ribeiro/laocoon.htm)
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To: bondserv
There is a whole lot of twisting going on to reconcile the Bible to a faulty interpretation they sell as science.

Yep, like inside out. I suspect it will get worse before it starts to get better. Here is my prediction: it will already be getting better once the divorce rate begins to fall.

39 posted on 01/25/2005 7:14:22 PM PST by gobucks (http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/classics/students/Ribeiro/laocoon.htm)
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To: gobucks
In science, theory is a higher level of understanding than facts, he notes. "Theories don't grow up to become facts. Rather, theories explain facts."

That was exactly Einstein's famous sentiment: "I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details."

Facts are details. Theories are thoughts.

40 posted on 01/25/2005 7:16:15 PM PST by Physicist
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