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God (or Not), Physics and, of Course, Love: Scientists Take a Leap
The New York Times ^ | January 4, 2005

Posted on 01/05/2005 9:14:33 AM PST by snarks_when_bored

The New York Times



January 4, 2005

God (or Not), Physics and, of Course, Love: Scientists Take a Leap

"What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?" This was the question posed to scientists, futurists and other creative thinkers by John Brockman, a literary agent and publisher of Edge, a Web site devoted to science. The site asks a new question at the end of each year. Here are excerpts from the responses, to be posted Tuesday at www.edge.org.

Roger Schank
Psychologist and computer scientist; author, "Designing World-Class E-Learning"

Irrational choices.

I do not believe that people are capable of rational thought when it comes to making decisions in their own lives. People believe they are behaving rationally and have thought things out, of course, but when major decisions are made - who to marry, where to live, what career to pursue, what college to attend, people's minds simply cannot cope with the complexity. When they try to rationally analyze potential options, their unconscious, emotional thoughts take over and make the choice for them.

Richard Dawkins
Evolutionary biologist, Oxford University; author, "The Ancestor's Tale"

I believe, but I cannot prove, that all life, all intelligence, all creativity and all "design" anywhere in the universe, is the direct or indirect product of Darwinian natural selection. It follows that design comes late in the universe, after a period of Darwinian evolution. Design cannot precede evolution and therefore cannot underlie the universe.

Judith Rich Harris
Writer and developmental psychologist; author, "The Nurture Assumption"

I believe, though I cannot prove it, that three - not two - selection processes were involved in human evolution.

The first two are familiar: natural selection, which selects for fitness, and sexual selection, which selects for sexiness.

The third process selects for beauty, but not sexual beauty - not adult beauty. The ones doing the selecting weren't potential mates: they were parents. Parental selection, I call it.

Kenneth Ford
Physicist; retired director, American Institute of Physics; author, "The Quantum World"

I believe that microbial life exists elsewhere in our galaxy.

I am not even saying "elsewhere in the universe." If the proposition I believe to be true is to be proved true within a generation or two, I had better limit it to our own galaxy. I will bet on its truth there.

I believe in the existence of life elsewhere because chemistry seems to be so life-striving and because life, once created, propagates itself in every possible direction. Earth's history suggests that chemicals get busy and create life given any old mix of substances that includes a bit of water, and given practically any old source of energy; further, that life, once created, spreads into every nook and cranny over a wide range of temperature, acidity, pressure, light level and so on.

Believing in the existence of intelligent life elsewhere in the galaxy is another matter.

Joseph LeDoux
Neuroscientist, New York University; author, "The Synaptic Self"

For me, this is an easy question. I believe that animals have feelings and other states of consciousness, but neither I nor anyone else has been able to prove it. We can't even prove that other people are conscious, much less other animals. In the case of other people, though, we at least can have a little confidence since all people have brains with the same basic configurations. But as soon as we turn to other species and start asking questions about feelings and consciousness in general we are in risky territory because the hardware is different.

Because I have reason to think that their feelings might be different than ours, I prefer to study emotional behavior in rats rather than emotional feelings.

There's lots to learn about emotion through rats that can help people with emotional disorders. And there's lots we can learn about feelings from studying humans, especially now that we have powerful function imaging techniques. I'm not a radical behaviorist. I'm just a practical emotionalist.

Lynn Margulis
Biologist, University of Massachusetts; author, "Symbiosis in Cell Evolution"

I feel that I know something that will turn out to be correct and eventually proved to be true beyond doubt.

What?

That our ability to perceive signals in the environment evolved directly from our bacterial ancestors. That is, we, like all other mammals including our apish brothers detect odors, distinguish tastes, hear bird song and drumbeats and we too feel the vibrations of the drums. With our eyes closed we detect the light of the rising sun. These abilities to sense our surroundings are a heritage that preceded the evolution of all primates, all vertebrate animals, indeed all animals.

David Myers
Psychologist, Hope College; author, "Intuition"

As a Christian monotheist, I start with two unproven axioms:

1. There is a God.

2. It's not me (and it's also not you).

Together, these axioms imply my surest conviction: that some of my beliefs (and yours) contain error. We are, from dust to dust, finite and fallible. We have dignity but not deity.

And that is why I further believe that we should

a) hold all our unproven beliefs with a certain tentativeness (except for this one!),

b) assess others' ideas with open-minded skepticism, and

c) freely pursue truth aided by observation and experiment.

This mix of faith-based humility and skepticism helped fuel the beginnings of modern science, and it has informed my own research and science writing. The whole truth cannot be found merely by searching our own minds, for there is not enough there. So we also put our ideas to the test. If they survive, so much the better for them; if not, so much the worse.

Robert Sapolsky
Neuroscientist, Stanford University, author, "A Primate's Memoir"

Mine would be a fairly simple, straightforward case of an unjustifiable belief, namely that there is no god(s) or such a thing as a soul (whatever the religiously inclined of the right persuasion mean by that word). ...

I'm taken with religious folks who argue that you not only can, but should believe without requiring proof. Mine is to not believe without requiring proof. Mind you, it would be perfectly fine with me if there were a proof that there is no god. Some might view this as a potential public health problem, given the number of people who would then run damagingly amok. But it's obvious that there's no shortage of folks running amok thanks to their belief. So that wouldn't be a problem and, all things considered, such a proof would be a relief - many physicists, especially astrophysicists, seem weirdly willing to go on about their communing with god about the Big Bang, but in my world of biologists, the god concept gets mighty infuriating when you spend your time thinking about, say, untreatably aggressive childhood leukemia.

Donald Hoffman
Cognitive scientist, University of California, Irvine; author, "Visual Intelligence"

I believe that consciousness and its contents are all that exists. Space-time, matter and fields never were the fundamental denizens of the universe but have always been, from their beginning, among the humbler contents of consciousness, dependent on it for their very being.

The world of our daily experience - the world of tables, chairs, stars and people, with their attendant shapes, smells, feels and sounds - is a species-specific user interface to a realm far more complex, a realm whose essential character is conscious. It is unlikely that the contents of our interface in any way resemble that realm.

Indeed the usefulness of an interface requires, in general, that they do not. For the point of an interface, such as the Windows interface on a computer, is simplification and ease of use. We click icons because this is quicker and less prone to error than editing megabytes of software or toggling voltages in circuits.

Evolutionary pressures dictate that our species-specific interface, this world of our daily experience, should itself be a radical simplification, selected not for the exhaustive depiction of truth but for the mutable pragmatics of survival.

If this is right, if consciousness is fundamental, then we should not be surprised that, despite centuries of effort by the most brilliant of minds, there is as yet no physicalist theory of consciousness, no theory that explains how mindless matter or energy or fields could be, or cause, conscious experience.

Nicholas Humphrey
Psychologist, London School of Economics; author,"The Mind Made Flesh"

I believe that human consciousness is a conjuring trick, designed to fool us into thinking we are in the presence of an inexplicable mystery. Who is the conjuror and why is s/he doing it? The conjuror is natural selection, and the purpose has been to bolster human self-confidence and self-importance - so as to increase the value we each place on our own and others' lives.

Philip Zimbardo
Psychologist, emeritus professor, Stanford; author, "Shyness"

I believe that the prison guards at the Abu Ghraib Prison in Iraq, who worked the night shift in Tier 1A, where prisoners were physically and psychologically abused, had surrendered their free will and personal responsibility during these episodes of mayhem.

But I could not prove it in a court of law. These eight Army reservists were trapped in a unique situation in which the behavioral context came to dominate individual dispositions, values and morality to such an extent that they were transformed into mindless actors alienated from their normal sense of personal accountability for their actions - at that time and place.

The "group mind" that developed among these soldiers was created by a set of known social psychological conditions, some of which are nicely featured in Golding's "Lord of the Flies." The same processes that I witnessed in my Stanford Prison Experiment were clearly operating in that remote place: deindividuation, dehumanization, boredom, groupthink, role-playing, rule control and more.

Philip W. Anderson
Physicist and Nobel laureate, Princeton

Is string theory a futile exercise as physics, as I believe it to be? It is an interesting mathematical specialty and has produced and will produce mathematics useful in other contexts, but it seems no more vital as mathematics than other areas of very abstract or specialized math, and doesn't on that basis justify the incredible amount of effort expended on it.

My belief is based on the fact that string theory is the first science in hundreds of years to be pursued in pre-Baconian fashion, without any adequate experimental guidance. It proposes that Nature is the way we would like it to be rather than the way we see it to be; and it is improbable that Nature thinks the same way we do.

The sad thing is that, as several young would-be theorists have explained to me, it is so highly developed that it is a full-time job just to keep up with it. That means that other avenues are not being explored by the bright, imaginative young people, and that alternative career paths are blocked.

Alison Gopnik
Psychologist, University of California, Berkeley; co-author, "The Scientist in the Crib"

I believe, but cannot prove, that babies and young children are actually more conscious, more vividly aware of their external world and internal life, than adults are. I believe this because there is strong evidence for a functional trade-off with development. Young children are much better than adults at learning new things and flexibly changing what they think about the world. On the other hand, they are much worse at using their knowledge to act in a swift, efficient and automatic way. They can learn three languages at once but they can't tie their shoelaces.

David Buss
Psychologist, University of Texas; author, "The Evolution of Desire"

True love.

I've spent two decades of my professional life studying human mating. In that time, I've documented phenomena ranging from what men and women desire in a mate to the most diabolical forms of sexual treachery. I've discovered the astonishingly creative ways in which men and women deceive and manipulate each other. I've studied mate poachers, obsessed stalkers, sexual predators and spouse murderers. But throughout this exploration of the dark dimensions of human mating, I've remained unwavering in my belief in true love.

While love is common, true love is rare, and I believe that few people are fortunate enough to experience it. The roads of regular love are well traveled and their markers are well understood by many - the mesmerizing attraction, the ideational obsession, the sexual afterglow, profound self-sacrifice and the desire to combine DNA. But true love takes its own course through uncharted territory. It knows no fences, has no barriers or boundaries. It's difficult to define, eludes modern measurement and seems scientifically woolly. But I know true love exists. I just can't prove it.


Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy | Search | Corrections | RSS | Help | Back to Top


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: edge; evolution; extraterrestriallife; god; psychology; religion; science; whatscientiststhink
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To: LibWhacker
If you're referring to the article itself, there are many more responses to John Brockman's question on the Edge website. Go here:

Edge for January 4, 2005

21 posted on 01/05/2005 10:40:11 AM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: snarks_when_bored

I'll try later, if I remember. Can't get through right now.


22 posted on 01/05/2005 10:44:22 AM PST by LibWhacker
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To: snarks_when_bored

John Brockman, "Third culture", Prof Dawkins.

beware of the enemy within, folks.

If you cannot recognize the enemy, you and your posterity are condemned to the tyranny of the anti-Christians.

Don't let these fakes and phonies bamboozle you with their lies and distortions. Don't let them divide you.

You've been warned.


23 posted on 01/05/2005 10:47:34 AM PST by TAquinas
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To: exnavychick; snarks_when_bored
I liked this one. :)

Really? To me it sounds like he's describing an insane obsession.

24 posted on 01/05/2005 10:47:57 AM PST by r9etb
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To: r9etb

LOL, I guess you could look at it that way. I took it a bit more poetically, myself. :)


25 posted on 01/05/2005 10:52:24 AM PST by exnavychick (I'm no expert, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night!)
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To: TAquinas

John Brockman, "Third culture", Prof Dawkins.

beware of the enemy within, folks.

If you cannot recognize the enemy, you and your posterity are condemned to the tyranny of the anti-Christians.

Don't let these fakes and phonies bamboozle you with their lies and distortions. Don't let them divide you.

You've been warned.

I make up my own mind about everything. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you probably do, too. Don't forget that your namesake, Aquinas, spent the better part of his life thinking about the works of the pagan philosopher, Aristotle. And no less a Catholic than Dante called the pagan Aristotle, "the master of those who know."

Wisdom and knowledge are where one finds them.

26 posted on 01/05/2005 10:54:55 AM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: snarks_when_bored

BTTT


27 posted on 01/05/2005 10:56:36 AM PST by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: snarks_when_bored
I make up my own mind about everything.

It's nice to think that about oneself, but I seriously doubt it's true for anybody.

I'm willing to bet that you (like I) respond emotionally more often then you'd like; and you do things for no apparent reason other than that people have always done it that way -- and that includes some rather significant philosophical, moral, and/or political issues.

28 posted on 01/05/2005 10:59:52 AM PST by r9etb
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To: DarkSavant
I swear the more brilliant the scientist, the most insanely idiotic his metaphysical views. Must be a pride thing.

That has to be one of the most brilliant things I've read in quite a long time. Congratulations and thanks. It's always good to meet other sentient beings along the way.

29 posted on 01/05/2005 11:00:22 AM PST by NCSteve
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To: r9etb
I make up my own mind about everything.

It's nice to think that about oneself, but I seriously doubt it's true for anybody.

I'm willing to bet that you (like I) respond emotionally more often then you'd like; and you do things for no apparent reason other than that people have always done it that way -- and that includes some rather significant philosophical, moral, and/or political issues.

If there's something significant about which I express opinions, I've thought about it. That's my way. And that's especially true about philosophical, moral and/or political issues. It's a long-standing habit.

I exclude, of course, many of the matters of 'animal faith' which underpin our daily existence. I don't make up my own mind about how chlorophyll converts sunlight into energy, or anything of that sort.

30 posted on 01/05/2005 11:17:02 AM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: snarks_when_bored
And that's especially true about philosophical, moral and/or political issues. It's a long-standing habit.

Like you, I like to think that I've thought through such things. Even so, I've found that all too often I've based a lot of my thinking on preconceived notions that I simply accepted as true.

In fact, no matter how hard you try to think things through, you're going to find that at some level you must simply accept on faith the idea that certain basic assumptions are true.

31 posted on 01/05/2005 11:26:45 AM PST by r9etb
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To: snarks_when_bored; Junior; VadeRetro; longshadow

I suspect this is more of a religion thread than it is science. I'll issue a ping if you guys want me to.


32 posted on 01/05/2005 11:32:39 AM PST by PatrickHenry (The List-O-Links for evolution threads is at my freeper homepage.)
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To: r9etb
In fact, no matter how hard you try to think things through, you're going to find that at some level you must simply accept on faith the idea that certain basic assumptions are true.

That's not quite the same point I understood you to be making earlier.

Of course it's true that not everything can be proved. My only point is that I try to think carefully about the things I care about, the things I express opinions on, and I try to understand what are the things I'm taking for granted (the things I'm not going to, or am not able to, prove).

As I said originally, I make up my own mind about things. I didn't say I can prove everything.

33 posted on 01/05/2005 11:33:18 AM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: snarks_when_bored

If I had more time, I'd really like to discuss this further. But alas, I don't right now. Perhaps I'll hit you up on it later.


34 posted on 01/05/2005 11:46:08 AM PST by r9etb
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To: r9etb

Will look forward to it. Best regards...


35 posted on 01/05/2005 11:49:37 AM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: snarks_when_bored
I believe, but I cannot prove, that most "Scientists" are really "Sciencists" in sheep's clothing.
36 posted on 01/05/2005 11:49:48 AM PST by Theophilus (Save Little Democrats, Stop Abortion)
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To: Theophilus
I believe, but I cannot prove, that most "Scientists" are really "Sciencists" in sheep's clothing.

Does that also explain their 'woolly' thinking?

37 posted on 01/05/2005 11:53:40 AM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: DarkSavant
Sir, please prove two plus two equals four...
But this is a definition of "four", and definitions are not subject to proof, being agreements about the assigned meaning of words. And to get four, count thou two and two together; and the number of thy counting shall be four... Three thou shalt not count, unless it be on your way to count four; nor five, unless thou countest in error...
38 posted on 01/05/2005 11:55:46 AM PST by GSlob
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To: snarks_when_bored
Does that also explain their 'woolly' thinking?

Yes, many seem to have an affinity for that type of thinking. And, though they can't see it, it's as obvious as the back of their neck.

39 posted on 01/05/2005 12:10:07 PM PST by Theophilus (Save Little Democrats, Stop Abortion)
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To: GSlob
But this is a definition of "four", and definitions are not subject to proof, being agreements about the assigned meaning of words.

You're correct, that was a bad example on my part. I bow to your superior wisdom.
40 posted on 01/05/2005 1:29:13 PM PST by DarkSavant (Then it's obvious what we must do, let's.... kill human)
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