GOP, You Are Warned

AEI ^ | 29 dec 04 | David Frum

[Fatalis]

No, Bush's plan is NOT President Reagan's 1985 amnesty, or any amnesty, for that matter.

Make that Reagan's 1986 Amnesty. What's the difference?

[Fatalis]

Bush I don't think likes the idea of a mass exodus of illegals already here. He needs to be "reassured" that many of them will come right back, and the deck is stacked in their favor to do so, even if the stacking really makes little practical difference.

I don't doubt it for a second. His attachment to illegals is preternatural.

[GGpaX4DumpedTea]

"I said IF. She'll have to walk the talk to earn a vote from me. As they say, talk's cheap. We'll see."

Yes, talk is cheap. If you really would consider voting for Hilary under ANY circumstance, then I do not believe what you say on your profile page here - "a Southern California conservative". No real conservative would even threaten to vote for her.

Now, that said, do I believe she might entice some to vote for her in 2008 because of this issue, who voted for Bush in 2004? Yes, but none who really are conservative. Hilary is not even a liberal, she is a communist. She hates America. She is the epitome of evil, and if you really care about this country, you cannot consider that any circumstance would make you consider voting for her.

I think our southern border should be manned by regular Army and Marines with night vision scopes on automatic weapons, loaded and the safety off, ready to use them on anyone coming across the border at other than a legal immigration entry point. I think sofisticated survelience and detection tools should be used to observe all of the southern border. I think every effort should be made to prevent illegal crossings. We are at war. We are being invaded across our southern border. We must stop it.

[Southack]

"What's the difference?"

Reagan's 1986 amnesty was absolute, didn't get them all registered (and didn't *touch* registering their employers), didn't collect fines from the illegals, but did give them an official leg up on citizenship applications.

In contrast, President Bush's plan doesn't give illegals an official leg up on the citizenship process, does fine illegals, and does provide an incentive for illegals to register themselves and their employers.

Registration is the key. Certainly the gun-banners would try to register all of us gun owners if they got the chance. There is a reason why they want to register us; it makes it easier to ban us and verify compliance with said ban later on.

[Fatalis]

Well, he can only keep it for awhile, and then it must be returned to its owner, so the owner benefits by getting some use of thc car that would otherwise be gone forever, albeit with some extra miles on it.

Sorry, no double jeopardy. That's not the deal the D.A. cut. The perp pays a fee and keeps your car, while you get a leaf. No fig, no tree, just a leaf.

[Dane]

Dane, give it up. The above is total crap. It would still be crap lite if you had said, the Tancredo types get all hot and bothered about illegal Hispanics getting welfare, but are quiet about Anglos abusing the welfare system.

Huh?

Get back to me when you start a thread with vitriol spewing about white Appalchians on the welfare teet.

[FederalistVet]

If you want to go back to Europe it is fine with me, but don't break the laws they might send you back here.

[Torie]

But there is an "end." Can't you read? :)

[GGpaX4DumpedTea]

"...with millions of Americans looking for illegals and the $100 bounty..."

$100 is not enough. The cost to the taxpayers in this country for each illegal immigrant is 10's of thousands of dollars. Make it a $5,000 bounty and for every illegal caught by a citizen who is allowed to remain, up the ante on the bounty to $100,000. And make sure the politician influencing the decision not to boot is notoriously critized in the media. Fine media owners and editors who do not cooperate on the media expose.

[Melas]

Everyone needs to contact their respective U.S.Senators and Congressman and let them know where you stand on this issue.

You betcha, and as someone who agrees with the president, you can bet that I've made my voice known. Oh, you forgot aobut us, who actually agree with GW didn't you?

[FederalistVet]

All the ones they didn't let you read in the public schools.
Many of the "illegal" aliens from south of our border are descended from native American tribes that fled rather than be exterminated here in the United States. I am a historian.

[Fatalis]

Reagan's 1986 amnesty was absolute, didn't get them all registered (and didn't *touch* registering their employers), didn't collect fines from the illegals, but did give them an official leg up on citizenship applications.

You don't understand the Reagan Amnesty either. It wasn't absolute, it also charged a fee, and if registration is your bugaboo, it's the Amnesty for you, because it registered a higher percentage of illegals than the Bush Amnesty would, since it's not employer based.

By the way, the Reagan Amnesty's citizenship mechanics were about the same as Bush's: temporary status, then green cards and five years of residence, and then citizenship. And, like the Reagan Amnesty, the Bush Amnesty would also raise immigration levels to accomodate legalized illegals.

[Torie]

Part of the "problem" is that CLinton signed a welfare reform bill that really did make huge strides in mitigating the problem. Thus the issue ceases to have much salience. I agree however with the notion that Hispanics are not coming here for welfare per se. They are coming here to work, and of course, part of the attraction of the job at far higher wages than available in Mexico, is the attendant social safety net.

[Melas]

1smallvoice

[FederalistVet]

"And many of us are descendants of people who were run off their land in this country as well...hell, let's just give the damn country away to any minority group that demands it!"

Why do you hate the native American? They may be our most valuable asset against the Muslim fanatic. The real point is that the United States government committed "crimes against humanity" against some of their ancestors. We can't just ignore that.

[Dane]

Part of the "problem" is that CLinton signed a welfare reform bill that really did make huge strides in mitigating the problem. Thus the issue ceases to have much salience. I agree however with the notion that Hispanics are not coming here for welfare per se. They are coming here to work, and of course, part of the attraction of the job at far higher wages than available in Mexico, is the attendant social safety net

Uh let's get history correct, shall we, hillary clinton stated in 92 that welfare would end as we know it, bill clinton vetoed welfare reform 3 times before signing it in Aug. 96(at Dick Morris's urging).

Why should anybody believe the Clinton's about anything?

[Torie]

What I believe, and what I posted, is that Clinton signed a welfare reform bill that made a huge difference. Do you disagree with that?

[hershey]

As far as persuading (bribing), Fox and his pals to rejuvenate Mexico's economy, etc., thereby giving Mexicans a reason to stay home, why should Fox do anything? We keep lowering the bar and absorbing those who don't like conditions in Mexico. As long as Fox knows we'll do this, he has no incentive to change. Psychology 101. Bush should slam the door in Fox's face and send the illegals home. Period. But he won't, not even when some Islamofascist terrorist group, already training in Mexico...learning Spanish...sneaks across the border and blows up San Francisco or some other western city.

[JustAnotherSavage]

You derived this:
You..."Why do you hate the native American? They may be our most valuable asset against the Muslim fanatic. The real point is that the United States government committed "crimes against humanity" against some of their ancestors. We can't just ignore that."

Out of this????
Me..."And many of us are descendants of people who were run off their land in this country as well...hell, let's just give the damn country away to any minority group that demands it!"

I was talking about MY cherokee family. But we decided 200 years ago to be Americans first. Don't pull that racist crap on me.

[dennisw]

Many of the "illegal" aliens from south of our border are descended from native American tribes that fled rather than be exterminated here in the United States. 

Very few. In fact what we get invading the United States are Mexicans from Mexican Indian tribes and Mestizos who are partly Mexican Indian and part Spanish. These Mexican Indians never lived in Texas, Arizona or California. And they certainly never lived in North Carolina or Chicago which have lots of illegal alien Mexicans.