Indeed, See Post #260. Fatalis blew it. Illegals have to return home under Bush's plan in order to get a renewal, contrary to her claim.
Posted on 12/31/2004 5:43:33 AM PST by white trash redneck
Thus winker's frustration at a neo-American national socialist solution,IMO, although, IMO, hillary and her minions are goading them on rhetorically and maybe even finacially to post on FR.
Exactly correct, I own a bar in Texas and talk polictics with blue collars workers all the time. I score points when I point out that the Democrats are the party of anti-America preverts and baby killers. I get my clock cleaned trying to defend GOP economic policy. In fact I gave up trying to defend it, you can't. Normally we all agree that both parties suck for diferent reasons.
Indeed, See Post #260. Fatalis blew it. Illegals have to return home under Bush's plan in order to get a renewal, contrary to her claim.
"In other words, they oppose President Bush's plan because they know it will work. They know that illegals will register under that plan and that employers will then hire less and less of them due to the wage incentive disappearing."
Hogwash. A retired INS agent disagrees with you, plus about 85% of the public. They are not going to give up free public services to start paying taxes!
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0412/28/ldt.01.html
Well, my next guest is concerned about a guest worker program that would legalize millions of illegal immigrants working in the country. He says the current proposals are not practical and pose a security risk. Michael Cutler is a retired 30-year veteran with the Immigration and National Service. He spent most of his career as a criminal investigator and intelligence specialist. And thanks very much for being with us, Michael.
PILGRIM: Why is this proposal not practical? Many think it is practical, get everyone registered, know who's here. It seems very practical.
CUTLER: You won't know who's here because of the crush of humanity showing up at immigration we're going to wind up having to process millions of applications and basically the people at that desk are going to have to take the person's words for who they claim to be. My concern is they are going to wind up giving false names and possibly even circumvent no-fly lists and watch lists at borders so they can enter the United States even though if their real identities were known, they'd be barred from entry and be barred from taking airplane flights.
PILGRIM: So what's your suggestion? We shouldn't register them at all, just let them stay, or register them back in their own countries? What's a more practical solution to this?
CUTLER: In a matter of speaking, we should register them back in their own countries. And this would discourage illegal immigration. If ultimately decide we need guest workers, and I don't know that we do, then we should have them file the applications from back home where we could more properly screen them and discourage people from running the border in the hopes that if they get here, they'll be able to stay.
The other problem we have is right now we're not able to prevent employers from hiring illegal aliens because you've only got 2,000 agents to lend integrity to this process. How do we plan to lend integrity to a guest worker program where these folks are supposed to leave after three years? We don't have the manpower to go out and attempt to make them leave. And we won't even know for certain that they're showing up on the jobs that they claim they're coming to go to work at.
PILGRIM: Michael, we don't have the manpower to actually supervise what's going on now. And you've been in this so long, for so many years. Do you have a solution that you can come up with?
CUTLER: Well, I think, again, that if we do a guest worker program, we need to have these folks apply from their home countries. You know, when the president gave a speech back in January, he talked about a guest worker program, and that translated the next day, according to the border patrol, in a surge of illegal aliens running the border. So the reality is all this does is to encourage more illegal immigration.
And the bureau that's charged with adjudicating these applications have massive problems right now. Mr. Aguirre, who runs the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services, that's an arm of the Homeland Security Department, has said that each day, his people have to adjudicate 30,000 applications and issue 20,000 green cards. And right now they have a backlog of over 4 million applications. How do they plan to deal with this tidal wave of applications that are sure to hit the immigration offices around the country?
PILGRIM: Here's what President Bush said recently. We want our border patrol agents chasing crooks and thieves and terrorists not good-hearted people coming here to work. He seems to say, we should focus on people who are trying to come into this country illegally who are terrorists. Do you not think that's a good approach?
CUTLER: I think in principle, it's a great idea. But the problem is, what does a terrorist or bad guy look like? You know, I often like to ask people, what do you think a terrorist does two days before an attack? More than likely he goes to the job he's been holding down for the past five years or attending the school that he's been going to for the past three or four years in an effort to hide in plain sight. We don't know what someone's intentions are when they show up claiming that they're here looking for work.
You know, I wish we had a crystal ball or some kind of a machine that would enable us to see into somebody's heart. And it's all well and good to talk about wanting good-hearted people. But making it reality is something entirely different, then I would challenge anyone that thinks we can do that to show me by what process we can know what somebody intends to do.
PILGRIM: With all your years of experience, we certainly take what you say to heart. Thanks for joining us this evening, Michael Cutler.
Yup, we have many allies in talk radio, and in conservative columnists. I didn't know where Buckley cam down on this.
Some would return home, maybe, and some...
# Fair and Meaningful Citizenship Process: Some temporary workers will want to remain in America and pursue citizenship. They should not receive an unfair advantage over those who have followed the law, and they will need to be placed in line for citizenship behind those who are already in line. Those who choose the path of citizenship will have an obligation to learn the facts and ideals that have shaped America's history.
# Reasonable Annual Increase of Legal Immigrants: A reasonable increase in the annual limit of legal immigrants will benefit those who follow the lawful path to citizenship.
The stipulation against receiving an unfair advantage is wordplay. Legalized illegal aliens would have to get "behind those who are already in line" for citizenship, after jumping the line for guest workers.
We can't track down 8 million anonymous criminals currently. We *can* track 8 million registered criminals.
Ergo, it makes sense to figure out some sort of incentive plan (e.g. a plea bargain) that convinces illegals to voluntarily register themselves. In the process, lets register their employers while we're at it.
OK time to dig in and google.
Illegalize illegals: Time for showdown in open frontier
HoustonChronicle.com ^ | Dec 15, 2004 | William F. Buckley Jr.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1302935/posts
Assuming there is a right to but one renewal, what we have is a program, where the illegals get to work for six years, in the meantime having gotten in the queue for a green card, and if still in the queue at the end of six years, then they need to pack their bags, and wait for their turn elsewhere. Is that really workable? Is that what will really happen?
Uh duh, tell that to a vast majority of the FDR generation, and you will get a finger in your face and vitriol that would make Mother Thresa say, they can go to hell, IMO.
See post 264
Does a lie suddenly become "truth" to you if enough people repeat it to you?
Perhaps some of those Congresspeople you opine about are simply incapable of knowing the difference between a "plea bargain" and an amnesty. For them, they simply need a little education. For the rest, they need to be called: liars.
Instead, it offers illegals a three-year temporary work permit.
But this temporary permit would be indefinitely renewable and would allow illegals a route to permanent residency, so it is reasonably predictable that almost all of those illegals who obtain the permit will end up settling permanently in the United States.
This is the most assinine, lame brained preposterous idea the President has had to this point.
If allowed to be birthed before a radical dilation and cutterage procedure as with aborting this crazy Vicente Fox hypnosis of President Bush this country will not recover to resume its journey to our manifest destiny.
Hey, Mr. President wake up and smell the future!
You omitted an important clause from your emphasis.
A requirement that guest workers return "to their home country after their period of work has concluded" hardly means they have to return home to renew.
If they renew their period of work would not be concluded.
Hillary is easy ? I'll bet that's what you thought in 1992 and 1996. Face facts. Clinton-hatred is an obsession confined to the hardcore GOP base.
Tell me, is your agenda to so overwhelm public services with illegals that state governments collapse into bankruptcy ? Kinda sounds like what Newsom did in San Francisco. He broke the law in the hopes of forcing his agenda on America and you are advocating breaking the law, too, to force your agenda on America. If you want to reduce public spending, do so with democratic consent of the government, not through encouraging rampant lawlessness. That's "ends justify the means" radicalism, not conservatism.
Are you more loyal to Mexico than America ? Apparently you view Americans of the Southwest as "birth controller/snowbird/pro-abort and lavenders" whom you would welcome seeing ethnically cleansed by Mexicans.
If you're Irish, are you planning to restart the San Patricio Battalion ?
Do you also kid yourself that our existing system won't let them get driver's licenses and Social Security cards, too?!
I spent the late 60s and early 70s being a state chairman of Young Americans for Freedom. Preserving your socialist programs to preserve your "lifestyle" is not a form of conservatism I have ever heard of. Identifying crimes not as crimes with perpetrators but as crimes with perpetrators of specific ethnic origins is a problem. If more burglaries were committed by blacks than would be proportional to theior numbers in society, it does not make burglary a "black" crime.
All the whining about crime on immigration threads is baloney since plenty of us are not too squeamish about "forgetting" unreported income when filling out those forms on April 15. So get off the phony high horse. Stupid laws are stupid laws. Often they die by being ignored. Immigration laws have always (since the 1880s) been enacted to control which races and nationalities get to enter the US in which proportions. To suggest otherwise is to be ignorant of history.
You would not know "conservative" if it jumped up and bit you.
Oddly, we can track all of the illegal aliens who would be eligible for legalization under the President's plan, through the workplace verification program. Those we can't track would remain anonymous anyway.
What will their response be to the Bush plan? What is the President's plan to deal with the millions of illegal aliens who would not be eligible for his guest worker plan.
Just want to say Sam(George Stepahanopolis), Welcome to FR.
Or are you Donna Brazile?
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