Posted on 12/23/2004 9:49:50 AM PST by blam
Thursday, December 23, 2004 - Page updated at 12:03 A.M.
Ancient Peru site older, much larger
By Thomas H. Maugh II
Los Angeles Times
A Peruvian site previously reported as the oldest city in the Americas actually is a much larger complex of as many as 20 cities with huge pyramids and sunken plazas sprawled over three river valleys, researchers report.
Construction started about 5,000 years ago — nearly 400 years before the first pyramid was built in Egypt — at a time when most people around the world were simple hunters and gatherers, a team from Northern Illinois University and Chicago's Field Museum reports in today's issue of the journal Nature.
The society and its people — known only as the Andeans — persisted in virtually the same form for 1,200 years before they were overrun by more warlike neighbors. That is the longest time any known ancient civilization survived, according to archaeologist Jonathan Haas of the Field, who led the expedition.
The results greatly expand understanding of how complex states began in the Americas.
"We are seeing the emergence of centralized decision-making, government and religion out of pristine conditions," Haas said. "They were not following a pattern established by someone else. They were developing it on their own. An Andean culture was being invented in this area."
Haas said people always have thought the Americas were behind Europe, Africa and Asia in terms of developing civilizations. The new dates for the region show the two worlds developed more or less simultaneously.
The findings also are overturning the previous belief that South American civilization was based in coastal cities supported by fishing. Instead, Andean society seems to have been built primarily on cotton farming and trade, supported by fishing villages.
"There wasn't anything like this in the world as far as I can tell," Haas said.
The first city to be discovered, Caral in the Supe River Valley, about 120 miles north of Lima, lay virtually ignored for more than 100 years after its discovery, despite its nearly 100-foot-tall pyramids. It had no golden or jeweled artifacts, no pottery shards with which to date it, and no art or writing to indicate its origins.
It was not until Haas' team first reported radiocarbon dates for the site three years ago that scientists appreciated its antiquity. Those dates indicated that Caral was built about 2600 B.C., much earlier than thought possible.
A new series of dates from the Supe River Valley, as well as the nearby Pativilca and Fortaleza valleys, show construction began even earlier, about 3000 B.C.
The driving force may well have been the Humboldt Current, a broad band of cold water rich in marine life, which served as a valuable food source.
But the climate turned much drier beginning about 3100 B.C., eliminating naturally growing fruits and vegetables that villagers relied on to supplement their diet of fish. They began looking inland for new food sources, Haas said.
"They figured out that if you take water out of the rivers and put it on desert land, the desert blooms and becomes very productive," he said. In the Norte Chico region, they could do so by hand-digging short canals.
They grew guava, beans, peppers and fruits — but not the corn or potatoes that researchers previously believed necessary to support a large population. But their most important crop was cotton, which was traded to coastal villagers to make fishing nets.
Andeans were peaceful. "They didn't fight with each other, and nobody else was big enough to fight with them," Haas said.
But beginning about 1800 B.C., possibly because the soil began to lose its productivity, new buildings and monuments got smaller and the big cities began to decline. New, larger cities appeared north and south of Norte Chico.
Warfare eventually began, and Norte Chico was conquered and abandoned.
The only occupants today are scattered farmers.
This article has more detail than the one posted yesterday.
I am having a problem with the dates, 5,000 years is far to old.
bttt
-Eric
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I agree. That would put it at the same time as the flood of Noah. There wouldn't be enough time to breed a new race of people and migrate to South America.
Good advice. Never, never try to eat 5,000 year old dates.
Why? They got there in ~6000 BCE, 8000 years ago.
>>That is the longest time any known ancient civilization survived, according to archaeologist Jonathan Haas of the Field, who led the expedition.
Hey, I've worked with that guy. His wife is nice. Him, welll...
If civilization got started in South America 5000 years ago, as it did in Egypt, India and China then what happened? Why did civilization advance in other parts of the world but not in South America or North America? Something does not compute.
Bull, see China.
>>Why did civilization advance in other parts of the world but not in South America or North America?
Define "advance" because in this context I really have no clue what you mean. Peru was a highly advanced society when Pizarro came along, but one of the things that happened a lot in the Andean region is that periodic enviornmental catastrophes seem to cause a collapse of various State level societies (Chimu, Moche, Huari).
The well known "El Nino" weather pattern is one example.
As it was, the Inca were pretty advanced by the time the Spanish encountered them, with an elaborate road system, record keeping system, and advanced agricultural systems.
>>That is the longest time any known ancient civilization survived
>>Bull, see China.
Well since I didn't post that quote, I have no idea why you replying to me.
I should clairify--the quote was IN the article. If you have a problem with it, take it up with Haas, not me.
The comment was a general one, not at all directed to you.
His evidence of this is what? Or is it just an educated guess since it's the way things usually turn out?
"We are seeing the emergence of centralized decision-making, government and religion out of pristine conditions," Haas said. "They were not following a pattern established by someone else. They were developing it on their own. An Andean culture was being invented in this area."
Conjecture? I know next to nothing about this site/people, but it seems to the layman this guy's making some pretty large leaps.
Nifty slide show on the "The Sacred City of Caral, Peru" from UCDavis.
FGS
"......persisted in virtually the same form for 1,200 years before they were overrun by more warlike neighbors.'
In the end it often comes down to cojones.
As far as age, who the heck knows what to believe. The great pyramid is claimed by some to be 8000 or 10000years old. You'd figure they could date these things fairly precisly.
It's just rock and limestone. How are you going to date when some random limestone was dug up, carved up, or put in place?
Neat! I love this stuff.
Did you see the History Channels Modern Marvels last night, about Galen and the study of medicine?? That was fascinating. And right before that they had some sort of "andulytch (sp) dear" that was possibly designed by Archimedes.
I am SUCH a geek. :-)
Merry Christmas Blam.
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