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Same-Sex Marriage - A Threat To Whom?
12-23-04 | Ernie1241

Posted on 12/23/2004 7:40:45 AM PST by Ernie.cal

I have read many messages which object to same-sex marriage but I am still waiting to learn what specific adverse consequences opponents of gay marriage anticipate to result from its legalization.

In other words, suppose same-sex marriage becomes law during 2005. By 2010 or 2015 what specific indisputable adverse consequences to society do opponents predict to occur?

With respect to those critics of same-sex marriage who refer to "God's law" and "procreation" --- do they believe that heterosexual couples who cannot have children, or who do not wish to have children, should also NOT be allowed to marry?

The essence of a free society is choice---including the option of choosing private behavior that does not cause harm to another person. The alternative is coercion, i.e. using the coercive (and punitive) power of government through laws, bureaucrats, and police to dictate what choices are permissible.

Do opponents of same-sex marriage propose that our society should begin identifying areas where choices involving human intimacy should be regulated by government entities and thus dilute our commitment to the values inherent in a free society?


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
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To: Ernie.cal
Ok, your questions are asking for a moral question. If you have no morals, then you will not understand the answer.

Is divorce bad? Yes, does it harm children, yes as well as other close to the family.

Is it against the law, no, but it is against the teachings of several churches.

Is Marriage a government thing, no, should it, no. It is a church thing.

The gay marriage issue is about money. Taxes and inheritance. that is all. Homos already have equal rights as any straight.

141 posted on 12/23/2004 8:45:18 AM PST by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? Freepmail Visualops or myself for details)
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To: xcullen
Should gay marriage be legalized the next step will be to force churches to change their policy.

Can churches be forced to marry two people of different religions if the church doesn't recognize their marriage?
142 posted on 12/23/2004 8:45:44 AM PST by HostileTerritory
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To: JRochelle

I agree he's anti-female. I'm the one he chose to characterize as hostile, despite all the "hostile" male posters here replying to him.

This isn't about me, it's about HIM. I don't buy into the aggressive homosexual agenda, he clearly is promoting it here.

I'm straight, and I vote.


143 posted on 12/23/2004 8:45:48 AM PST by Judith Anne (Thank you St. Jude for favors granted.)
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To: Ernie.cal

"With respect to those critics of same-sex marriage who refer to "God's law" and "procreation" --- do they believe that heterosexual couples who cannot have children, or who do not wish to have children, should also NOT be allowed to marry?"

My wife's best friend for many years had always said that she will not marry and will not have kids. She lived in sin for 10 years with her boyfriend with no kids. Guess what - she finally married him 2 years ago and their son will soon be 1 yr old.

The point is that there is always the potential to bring children into the world in a heterosexual relationship, and a traditional marriage on average gives the best chance for the kids to be raised with healthy relationships and values. When people chip away at the traditional family because they want to feel better about their own perversions it harms society down the road.


144 posted on 12/23/2004 8:46:04 AM PST by SoCal_Republican
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To: Ernie.cal; AppyPappy

Second time:

Stop hiding from the polygammy issue. Why do you think your marriage defintion must stop at any two persons? Why not three or five.

Stop hiding.



145 posted on 12/23/2004 8:46:12 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: conserv13

Alot things don't affect me but they are still, thankfully, illegal. Spousal abuse springs to mind. Though I am sure there are other similar crimes that "don't affect me".


146 posted on 12/23/2004 8:46:25 AM PST by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
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To: Killing Time
What about adultery?

*************

Good question. In my opinion, a woman or man should know their prospective spouse well enough before marriage that the inclination toward adultery would be apparent. Once children enter the picture, only the most egregious behaviour should be considered in ending the marriage.

147 posted on 12/23/2004 8:47:07 AM PST by trisham
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To: Killing Time

(What about adultery?)


Divorce is not needed in those instances.

Only a gun:)

HEHE


148 posted on 12/23/2004 8:48:04 AM PST by JRochelle
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To: Ernie.cal
Second time on this issue as well.

You: GAY BROTHERS: How many gay brothers do you suppose there are in our country? If they ALL decided to marry, what adverse consequence do you anticipate occurring?

Me: So, you would permit gay brothers or sisters to marry. Thank you for being clear. Now, how about a father and son? Father and 18 year old daughter? Please state your reasons why or why not in each case.

Stop hiding.

149 posted on 12/23/2004 8:48:47 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Ernie.cal
My message was meant to trigger a discussion about how much we want government to regulate human intimacy.

Government does not regulate human intimacy between two consenting adults. Period.

150 posted on 12/23/2004 8:48:48 AM PST by crv16
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To: Ernie.cal
The essence of a free society is choice---including the option of choosing private behavior that does not cause harm to another person. The alternative is coercion, i.e. using the coercive (and punitive) power of government through laws, bureaucrats, and police to dictate what choices are permissible.

This argument on the part of the gay community is worthless. The fact that 'gay marriage' is not recognized by virtue of a legal ruling does not stop gay people from living their chosen lifestyle.

It's an attempt to garner public sympathy but creating the illusion that they are somehow being persecuted which is simply not the case.

Do opponents of same-sex marriage propose that our society should begin identifying areas where choices involving human intimacy should be regulated by government entities and thus dilute our commitment to the values inherent in a free society?

This statement is self defeating as far as your agenda is concerned.

You say that government has no right to regulate choices involving human intimacy while at the same time intimating that it is somehow essential that 'gay marriage' be a legally recognized and government sanctioned activity.

I will say that I agree the government has no business involving themselves in the act of human intimacy but I would point out that intimacy and marriage, in the eyes of the law, are not the same thing

151 posted on 12/23/2004 8:49:44 AM PST by Dad2Angels
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To: Travis McGee
Why do you think your marriage defintion must stop at any two persons? Why not three or five.

Or 5 persons and their dogs? Where does it stop?

152 posted on 12/23/2004 8:50:01 AM PST by zip (Remember: DimocRat lies told often enough became truth to 48% of Americans)
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To: escapefromboston
You are right but spousal abuse hurts someone directly, and of course should be a crime.

I am not sure that two people who love each other and want to show that love by getting married should not be allowed.

153 posted on 12/23/2004 8:50:20 AM PST by conserv13
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To: crv16

The gay lifestyle is not healthy, mentally or physically, and this fact is apparently forbidden to be discussed in public schools.

Also, I've read studies showing that, as boys go from 12 years old to 25, the number who *think* they might have attractions to boys steadily goes down. Leave them along, and they'll grow out of it. Unless, of course, they engage in gay behavior.

When schools will point out, 'look, this matter is settled. It's legal', and when so-called hate laws forbid teaching of the health facts and the moral traditions, then we've callously knocked down the fences to many people who would otherwise not fall into homosexuality.

-- Joe


154 posted on 12/23/2004 8:50:38 AM PST by Joe Republc
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To: Judith Anne

Yup, a gay activist troll.


155 posted on 12/23/2004 8:51:29 AM PST by protest1
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To: Ernie.cal
The essence of a free society is choice---including the option of choosing private behavior that does not cause harm to another person.

It does harm other people. Ever hear of AIDS? That was 100% a homosexual disease until the homosexuals intentionally infected the general population with it. In addition, sodomy is harmful to those that practice that unnatural and perverted behavior. Everyone is harmed by sodomy including those that practice it.

Male homosexuality is not about companionship anyway. The average male homosexual has hundreds of partners because hedonism is the driving force of male homosexuality. The push for gay marriage is not because they want to get married, they want acceptance. Very few gay men would ever get married.
156 posted on 12/23/2004 8:52:29 AM PST by microgood (Washington State: Ukraine without the poison)
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To: protest1

I agree.


157 posted on 12/23/2004 8:53:14 AM PST by Judith Anne (Thank you St. Jude for favors granted.)
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To: Ernie.cal
I am troubled by the undisguised hostility which is revealed in some of the messages in this thread. Those who speak about "God's law" or "offense to God" are not going to be amenable to any reasoned argument.

Will all due respect, you asked for opinions and that's what you get. They aren't going to come to your house and make you watch Davey and Goliath or anything. That's simply why they believe what they believe.

There is no real need for gay marriage except for the few who desire recognition to make themselves feel better. The government offers benefits to married hetero couples because the government views them as the most stable family unit. A same sex unit is not as stable nor does it need the benefits because it cannot produce children without outside interference. Children do not occur naturally to the relationship. Also those relationships are viewed as less than proper for obvious reasons. There is no NEED for government-sanctioned support for those relationships. When marriage was instituted eons ago, women needed men to care for them especially as they grow older. Stability helped women survive.

In the 21st century, there is only one debate: Marriage or no marriage. You cannot start creating "new" marriages to add on.

158 posted on 12/23/2004 8:53:15 AM PST by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: conserv13

Yes it hurts someone directly but the woman chooses to stay with the guy who beats her.
Though now that I think about it, if the woman doesn't press charges I guess the guy doesn't go to jail. I think. (I am not really sure)


159 posted on 12/23/2004 8:54:35 AM PST by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
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To: ShandaLear

Good questions, ShandaLear.

I would initially answer this way.

I believe that America needs all her sons and daughters.

I believe that our destiny as a country is to demonstrate how good and decent people can live and prosper together and do so irrespective of race, religion, gender, wealth, or sexual preference.

It is never easy to expand freedom to those categories of people we may fear or dislike. And there will always be Americans who use that fear and dislike to attempt to convince us to not live up to our ideals.

I believe that our society and our children benefit by learning that a free society respects and values ALL of its members----including those who happen to fall in love with someone of the same sex.


160 posted on 12/23/2004 8:54:46 AM PST by Ernie.cal
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