Posted on 12/22/2004 7:05:54 AM PST by Graybeard58
See post 56.
Moral Standards have little meaning outside the context of a Religous world view. Arguments for Moral behavior are basically weak and trite when placed in a context that human life is nothing more than an accident of fate.
Trying to take moral stands without the context of religion is effectively moral relativism, because that moral stand is purely relative.
Again, if the students were failing to learn math, because of this teacher, fire his butt. If however it was not negatively impacting their education, which from the article it appears it was not, this is just anti-god communism.
I do not fear my child being exposed to religions or faiths that are not christian. If it is open intellectual discussion then I frankly encourage it. If its purely proselytizing than that is certainly inappropriate.
He wasn't doing that every day. He said SOME days he did. There's a difference.
Where are these moral standards obtained? Society is now pushing homosexual "marriages" as moral so schools should teach this?
Moral standards come from God. God's word is the bible. If we don't get our morals from God our morals will change constantly based on who is in power at the time. Bill Clinton in office - adultery/sex with your intern is moral. Lying stealing is moral. Clinton leaves office - never mind, new set of morals now...
> My word your world view is warped.
Is it? That's strange. I use mathematics every day to do my job. So does the Baptist missionary in the cubical next to me, and the Mormon on the other side. None of us plug a "god" function into our codes, or a "Jesus" macro into Excel. Perhaps our work would do better if we included God into data analysis?
> even if he used 10 minutes of every class to discuss religion, has it harmed or prevented his students from learning Math?
And if the religion he was pushing was Wicca or Islam, would you be as accomodating?
> This is purely an assault on God from the communist schools of Amerika.
Hmmm... What groups regularly spell "America" with a "K"?
The rest of your irrelevant post snipped.
> Moral Standards have little meaning outside the context of a Religous world view.
Except to those without religious world views. Moral standards can be just as powerful for them as they can be for the strongest believer.
> this is just anti-god communism
Ah, hysterics.
> If it is open intellectual discussion then I frankly encourage it.
In *math* *class*?
There is a vast difference between discussing and proselytizing... as an engineer you'd think you would know that. The article does not suggest that the teacher was proselytizing. I have no issue with my child being exposed to discussions of other folks spirituality.
You clearly have animosity toward religion, so be it. You are also incapable of reading an entire post as well, and have knee jerked because of those animosities, not suprisingly.
That would equate to 36 days of instruction per year. I think you would agree that we should not set aside 36 days of math classes for religion?
It might have been me.
As an unabashed Christian, the last thing in the world I would want (if I sent my children to the hell holes that government schools have become) would be some government employee proselytizing to my children. I choose the spiritual teachers of my children very carefully.
Not remotely true. Morality is simply an exercise in relativism for the secular. For if Morality is purely a matter of ones personal decisions, then it is possible fundamentally that anything can be moral.
To argue that Morality is just as defensible in secularism as it is from a religious foundation is flat out folly. Since in the secular world, morality is what you make it, it is free to whatever the individual decides it is... not absolute fundamental basis for it exists.. it derives purely from the whim of the subjective individual... and this is a house of cards.
Of course not.
It's sort of like how everyone is for states' rights until it comes to casino gambling, medicinal marijuana, assisted suicide, etc..........
> Moral standards come from God.
They also come from *other* gods. And they come from the use of reason.
> If we don't get our morals from God our morals will change constantly based on who is in power at the time.
Moral standards changed throughout Christian history. At one time, slavery was "moral," and was supported via scripture. At one time the Divine Right Of Kings was "moral." At one time subjugation of woman was "moral." At one time hunting down wiches was "moral." At one time the Prohibition of booze was "moral." At one time (thinking Plymouth Plantation here), communism was "moral."
Whether *you* think that these positions are Biblically supportable or not is irrelevant... the people at the time, reading their Bibles, saw that morality in there. As honestly as you hold your Bible-bas3ed positions... so did they.
> in the secular world, morality is what you make it
That's astonishingly wrong. So wrong that it's clear that debatign with you would be a waste of time.
> There is a vast difference between discussing and proselytizing...
Just as there's a vast difference between church and math class.
> You are also incapable of reading an entire post
No, I read it. It was irrelevant to the discussion.
He was stopping students in the hall and pressuring them to engage in prayer ...
He was also telling those who weren't doing well in algebra to give their problems to Jesus.
You know he would.
Carolyn
"The next day, a teacher reported that a student was not doing well in algebra because she felt uncomfortable asking Ziegler for help, Kalina said."
he saw 120 students a day, many with "issues and worries" that were barriers to learning. By giving up their cares to Jesus, the students would be free to learn, he said.
And bureacrats can't handle that - why, the only solution to these issues and worries are government programs, dontchaknow.
Wouldn't even to be that extreme. Many Catholic parents would object to Baptist doctrine being promoted and many Baptists likewise would object to Catholic doctrine.
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