> in the secular world, morality is what you make it
That's astonishingly wrong. So wrong that it's clear that debatign with you would be a waste of time.
Orion, morality based on secularism is flat out relativism, there is no other way to describe it.
In a secular world view, NOTHING is an absolute, it is all relative. Sure one secularist could argue murder is immoral, but another could just as cogently argue it is moral.. both can be based on absolutely sound logic, but because they both started with seperate base assumptions upon which they base their morality they both can make valid, cogent, reasonable and defensible stands that are completley diametrically opposed.
Since they have no common basis to stand, they both can have completely divergent moralities. By basing ones morality on secularism it is basically like saying the fundamental rules of mathematics that all higher math is based on are fluid and subjective and not absolute. Under such a system you wind up with not one agreeable answer to a formula, but can wind up with any answer based on the underlying subjective fundamental rules the problem solver chose to use.
That is not to say that an individual with secular morality may not follow his moral guidelines faithfully, in fact many I am sure do. Unfortunately though their morality is based upon subjective and flawed principles, because it is not based on fundamental truths, but on what the individuals subjectively self declares to be fundamental truths.
Secular morality is simply another name for subjective morality. Subjective morality allows things like the Holocausts and the Gulags to occur, since when your morality does not come from absolutes, you can have basic premises in your morality that state, Jews are not equivalent to Arians and therefor any treatment of them is permissible... or People who do not agree with the the state may be killed by the state for the good of all others.
You cannot argue that secular morality is remotely equivalent to religious morality.