Posted on 12/10/2004 7:04:48 PM PST by Doctor Raoul
See the following articles: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/203200_armor10.html FROM THE SEATTLE TIMES ARTICLE: Here's the phone number 1-800-782-7892 - Intl. Export / Import Services, press "0" to get a person. Is Durbin a hypocrite for saying anything while he protects the pork at home?
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_10.html
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m998.htm
From those articles and webpages, here's some facts:
19,400 Humvees in Iraq
TODAY 77% of Humvees in Iraq are armored
5,900 were shipped from factory with armor
9,000 upgraded with kits in theater
Unarmored Humvees aren't supposeed to go off base.
Unarmored Humvees travel between bases on a flatbed truck.
Of 9,386 armor kits shipped to Iraq, 9,143 have been installed.
That's 97% installed, only 3% to go.
There are at least 16 varients of the Humvee:
M998 cargo/troop carrier without winch
M1038 cargo/troop carrier with winch
M966 TOW missile carrier, basic armor, without winch
M1036 TOW missile carrier, basic armor, with winch
M1045 TOW missile carrier, supplemental armor, without winch
M1046 TOW missile carrier, supplemental armor, with winch
M1025 armament carrier, basic armor, without winch
M1026 armament carrier, basic armor, with winch
M1043 armament carrier, supplemental armor, without winch
M1044 armament carrier, supplemental armor, with winch
M996 mini-ambulance, 2-litter, basic armor
M997 maxi-ambulance, 4-litter, basic armor
M1035 soft-top ambulance, 2-litter
M1037 S-250 shelter carrier, without winch
M1042 S-250 shelter carrier, with winch
M1069 tractor for M119 105-mm light gun
The Humvees to be factory-armored by O'Gara-Hess have some different specifications than the models shipped without armor, Woodward said. So increasing production requires careful planning.
Today on Rush's show, he had a caller that swears she knows people that are buying steel locally there in the Pacific Northwest and sending it by UPS to soldiers in Iraq.
"It's not like making a Big Mac," he said. "There are so many configurations. ... You can't just whip them through like a big grill in a McDonald's."
I called UPS. They will ship to Iraq, but you have to pick up your shippment at their offices in Baghdad or Basra. They don't deliver to anyone's door.
Also, length, width and height can't total more than 165 inches.
The weight limit on packages to Iraq, 150 lbs.
Yeah, ship armor plate by UPS, that'll work.
A caller to Dom Giordano's show last night had three very good observations. The handwringing liberals posture this as "if you only cared enough, people wouldn't die" even in a war.
He also said it depended on believing that people in the Pentagon would put $$$ before a soldier's life.
Last, he noted that the HMMWV replced the jeep and that no one would expect even an armored jeep to do what we have armored HMMWVs doing.
Rock Island Arsenal has a piece of this according to the caller and LTC Scott Rutter USA(Ret) and that Durbin's backyard. Obviously those take more time to reach the soldiers than those modified in theater.
Glad ya made it back safe ........Thanks for taking your turn in the barrel !
yeah, I got my facts mixed up, thanks for correcting me.
It is the add-on armor kits for older models that have the suspension problems, etc.
www.InsideDefense.com Vol. 16, No. 35 -- August 30, 2004:
"The additional armor has been problematic for many of the older vehicles, causing suspension and drivetrain wear.
All humvees are not made to be armored, said a spokesman for AM General.
To mitigate some of the strain, the Army is adding horsepower and beefing up the suspension of old Humvees through its recapitalization program, said Steve Roberts, assistant product manager for Humvee recapitalization within the programexecutive office for combat support combat service support."
"AM General also is beginning to make two new models that have stronger chassis designed to better withstand the impact of armor..."
ping
There is said to be a shortage of the steel needed - China is the big buyer........
Over the years I've had a few posts deleted by Admin Moderator but would I call him the "FReestapo"? No. Because I respect the mods and the posts were made in anger and should have been pulled.
"Pajamahadeen" isn't amusing because it's derisive of ourselves. And the context in which it was created had absolutely nothing to do with the Middle East. Had the word not come up in the CBS/Rather scandal.....had the situation in some way actually been about the Middle-East...the word might be slightly clever.
And to be perfectly honest, my earliest memory of world events was Islamic nut-jobs over-running our embassy in Iran. By the time the World Trade Center came down I'd seen 20-odd years of muslims cutting off people's heads, blowing innocent people up and treating a quarter of the world's female population like sh!t.
I'm all out of the ability to find anything humorous enough about Arabs, or the psychosis they call a religion, to want to label myself with any of it.
You are absolutely right. Those that haven't "been there, done that" have no concept of the chain of command, without which there would be a total collapse of morale AND discipline. Touchy-feely must go. And while we're at it, let's get rid of the stupid "An Army of One" motto, what happened to the idea of teamwork??
Looking at your handle makes me feel good. Our youngest son served five years in the 1st Cav (2/7), then 2ID now the 3ID which will deploying for Iraq in January. On Class As, they are allowed to wear the crest of their old unit that they feel is most significant (in addition to their present unit), he wears the Garry Owen crest.
The Nat. Guard whiner needs to get the facts and sign Art. 15 papers...
RB
Thanks for the ping!
It was a member of the media that coined the phrase and I don't think it was all in jest, so like the liberal victim groups that adopt the slurs against them, I decided to use it.
Say it loud, say it proud, I'm a Pajamahadeen!!!
I can't wait for the scene, Dan getting into the CBS helicopter, suddenly turns around, raises both arms and makes the "V" signs with both hands...
From our perspective:
Just got a call 12/06/04 from a logistics company about moving some armoured equipment from Ohio to North Carolina. The rates were great! However, I had to turn the loads down because my insurance company would not cover the liability for the loads. (Something about a possible protester causing an accident, etc....)
TRUTH bump
Which reminds me of an officer's meeting recently. An officer was wondering, if we aren't supposed to fraternize with the enlisted troops, but we are supposed to be friendly and show that we care, where do we draw the line? How long before caring becomes fraternization?
Rummy's comment that even an armored vehicle can still be blown up - so don't worry about it - was totally senseless.
Doesn't Rummy believe that the "war on terror" itself is armor for the US?
Even a country that has a "war on terror" can still be blown up, so why not lets just forget the whole thing.
If the US Executive feels like we need protection from WMDs, the troops are quite justified in their concerns about weapons that are a clearer and more present danger.
Maam,
I honestly do not know how an NCO or CO deals with the troops today. I came out of Infantry OCS in the late 60's. The lines were clearly delineated and pretty strict. We cared about basic wellfare of the troops, but 'their wellfare' was their ability to accomplish the mission. Beyond that? It was a personal problem best taken up with the Chaplain.
I know things have changed and believe me, I would dearly love to be part of the current military. My hat is off to you currently serving who have to deal with all of the PC.
Still, yours is a much more formidable and effective fighting machine than we ever dreamed of being. And we weren't too damned bad, either.
Excellent work. And, we can still make lemonade out of these lemons. If the rat/media continues to call for more armor, then we call to cut domestic spending to get the armor. Just as important, we also get more air transports to haul the armor. Then, we let them know they'd been had. [Rumsfeld can later brag about all this, and thank the DNC for its newfound enthusiasm to go against Kerry's anti-armor attitude. "As you now seem to realise, we can never do enough to keep our soldiers safe."] This way, we get newer and better armored personnel carriers. More importantly, we become more mobile with newer and better air transport. And, we cut domestic spending, perhaps a mere cut in domestic increases.
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