Posted on 11/20/2004 8:04:44 PM PST by OESY
Oliver Stone and the studio releasing his $150 million historical epic "Alexander" should beware of Greeks bearing writs — over the film's depiction of Alexander the Great as Alexander the Fabulous.
The controversial director and Warner Bros. were yesterday threatened with a lawsuit by a group of Greek lawyers who are incensed that the new movie "Alexander" portrays the hero as bisexual.
The group of 25 Athens-based lawyers said they sent a letter to Warner Bros. demanding that it label "Alexander" ... as a work of fiction....
"We are not saying that were are against gays, but we are saying that the production company should make it clear that this film is pure fiction and not a true depiction of the life of Alexander."...
Colin Farrell, who plays Alexander in the 3-hour epic, sports a blond pageboy and mini toga and is seen kissing two different men on the lips.
Though the film includes a steamy wedding-night sex scene between Alexander and his wife Roxane, played by Rosario Dawson, it makes no bones that the true love of the emperor's life was his pal Hephaistion, portrayed by Jared Leto.
Alexander came from northern Greece, which has long been touchy about most historians' belief that like many men of the era, one of the greatest military leaders of all time swung both ways.
Two years ago, hundreds of Greeks stormed an archeological symposium where a speaker presented a paper on Alexander's sexuality and police were called in to restore order.
"We cannot come out and say that President... Kennedy was a shooting guard for the Los Angeles Lakers and so Warner cannot come out and say Alexander was gay," Varnakos said....
According to the film's narration, "It was said . . . that Alexander was never defeated, except by Hephaistion's thighs."
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
The Greeks of the time consider the Macedonians to be at best semi-Greek, and little better than Thracians.
Not true. Macedionians were considered hicks much the same way the stereotype of people from Arkasas are considered inbred hicks. That stereotype does not make them any less Americans. (or bill clinton not a US citizen)
The were Greek, they did speak Greek. The entire world at the time considered all on the penisular Greeks, every city state on the penisula considered themselves Greek, and the stone writings and writings that have survived list the Macedonian provence as Greek.
The only reason for the modern change is the yougoslavian land grab by renaming a slavic provence "macedonia" in the 1950's.
Macedonia is part of Greece. The birth place of Alexander is in Greece, the burial tomb of King Philip is in Greece.
Interesting. I never heard any part of this controversy until now. When I saw the trailer it looked interesting to me until I saw it was a Stone movie. Then I knew better.
Actually Alexander considered his real father to be Zeus, king of the Greek gods. In his eyes that would be 100% greek by your statement.
I noticed that too, but who cares? Evidently homosexuality was acceptable among Greeks. I suppose the situation was similar to that in say Afghanistan today, men and women segregated and men resorting to the practice as a pressure valve and social ladder-- to establish hierarchy. It doesn't seem unreasonable to suppose Alexander participated in the practice.
He was a murderous bastard, a proto-hitler. I don't care if he screwed knot-holes in fence posts, frankly. I see nothing to celebrate in the life of this tyrant or any reason to worry about his reputation.
Diodorus Siculus wrote the fourth major biography in the first century BC. Arrian was evidently the source of the Achilles/Patroklos tomb anecdote, which I suspect is fictional but that leaves little doubt about what Arrian thought on this little controversy..
I am interested in military history. I have always been interested in Greek history and Alexander.
I wouldn't see this movie because I heard Farrell make an anti-Iraq War remark. I can't listen to or see the work of liberal entertainers anymore.
I wouldn't see a Stone movie.
One time I looked up "Bagoas." He was described as a "favorite" of Alexander.
http://www.androphile.org/preview/Library/Biographies/Alexander/Alexander.htm
Stephen Pressfield has a new novel out about Alexander. It's called "The Virtues of War". I haven't read it yet but his novel about the Spartans at Thermopylae called "Gates of Fire" was fantastic!
Part of the facts that made alexanders conquests of note was that he did not impose culture on the conquered and often adopted local practices. It was the first efforts of various cultures co-existing (in a bloody savage world).
He also established the library of Alexandria. When commerical ships came to port, they would be inspected for scrolls to be taken and copied. If it was a document of value the owners would be given the copy.
Homosexuality was never accepted by the Ancient Greeks. Even the homoadvocates support the notion that homosexuals did not exist then in any more than they exist now. Homosexuals were segregated appart from normal society. I do simplify because the real issue here is whether Oliver Stone takes liberties which the actual historical evidence does not support.
Not the first time for stone, History channel right now is doing a conspiracy piece about the Kennedy assisination which discredits Stone's "JFK" as absurd.
From an older FR thread on "The gaffes of Al Sharpton"
Sharpton said it in a 1994 speech according to the following site:
http://www.claremont.org/weblog/000144.html
Historical accuracy seems to be the furthest thing from your posts. Let me take a wild guess, you're a Greek nationalist aren't you?
i saw the burton version last year. although there was no overt homosexuality, burton did not look at all like he was attempting to play a straight male. his make-up and toga were more extreme than colin's version. i had assumed alexander was gay, and burton conveyed this in an effective way.
ALEXANDER, A FRUITY HOLLYWOOD-LEFT THANKSGIVING PRISS PARADE FOR THE GAY MARRIAGE CROWD
Remember the scene in "Jurassic Park" when the lawyer got killed and the audience cheered? Get ready. "Alexander," the newest three hour sand and drag queen movie, is so bad that the audience cheers every time a major character gets killed, which unfortunately doesn't start happening til the two hour mark. Actors, a la "Troy," flounce around in their best blouse and skirt ensembles kissing and flirting with each other before going off to conquer the world."Yoo hoo, Darius. Ready or not, here we come," and they skip into battle. This is strictly a Blue State epic for the gay marriage set. A full quarter of a "straight" non-paying preview audience at a college showing walked out after the first 45 minutes and the rest remained to cheer and laugh at the dialogue. The script is so bad that normally good actors like Val Kilmer look horrible. Viewers report that the script wanders off into stealing from "Citizen Kane's" rosebud recollections to a blatant "Braveheart" reconstruction.
People who tout the movie as honest, artistically brave (you can bet it doesn't deal with Islamofascism), and truthful to history, actually mean that men kissing each other on the mouth, ogling one another, and going to bed with each other is what passes for artistic bravery in anti-Bush Hollywood. The "truth" of Alexander's homosexuality or "bi-sexuality" is on graphic display. The reality of the Greeks kidnapping young boys and raping them is not included in this historically accurate movie, but wife raping is included, presumably for the bi-sexual Northeast and Malibu crowds.
Then there is the sheer boredom that co-writer, co-producer, and director Oliver Stone manages to convey through such clever devices as endless speeches and battle scenes that you can't see because they are filmed through dust and sand. Everyone who has seen it comments about a shot of an eagle interrupting a battle scene that makes no sense and then cutting back to the hazy combat. In the business they call it "cutting to the moon." Every director worth his salt always has some extra footage he can "cut to" when a scene is missing footage that matches the master shot. When a director is bad or egotistical he has no "moon" and instead of a door or a breast he has to use a ten second shot of a bird flying, squirrels f***ing, or a lion walking. Oliver Stone (co-writer, co-producer, and director) shot no moon to which he could cut if he had no matching footage. Audiences who saw the movie for free also comment on the horrid dialogue and acting, the age of Alexander's mother (Angelina Jolie would have had to give birth when she was eight years old), and the impossible age of Ptolemy.
It is generally recognized that a Spaniard named Lope de Vega, a 16th century dramatist who wrote two thousand three hundred plays, scribed the absolute worst soliloquies ever written. Til now. This movie will probably top de Vega's reputation for agonizingly long and tedious monologues. Actors clad in skimpy dresses emote them while doing their best to feign masculinity til they can date one another after the day is done.. Most attendees writing "reviews" seem to be sorry that Anthony Hopkins, of all people, is forced to shuffle around in a back lot sand dune uttering the skunkiest solo dialogue since Ethan Hawke butchered Hamlet back in 2000.
This is another example of the decadent Hollywood Left handing $150 million to the "Hate America" near Communist Oliver Stone knowing his track record for wallowing in blood, fictionalizing history, and losing money. All the viewers reporting compare it with "Troy" except that it's three times as gay. The movie will eventually cost in excess of $200 million in AOL/Time Warner shareholder money if you include prints and marketing. This means that it will have to gross $400 mil to break even and at $8 per ticket it means that fifty million people will have to see it. I guess the DNC poll takers told Time Warner execs that "the Red State a******s are all secret fags" and are dying to see men sodomizing each other in the desert. Guys who believed the financial statements of former AOL founder Steve Case will believe anything. Still.
Summing it up: short AOL/Time Warner stock or buy put options. Right now.
Hey, I hope Howard's title didn't give anything away.
burton as alexander didn't kiss any guys on the lips, but i think there was a wrestling scene (with clothes on).
By Jeannette Walls
MSNBC
Updated: 2:43 a.m. ET Nov. 11, 2004Maybe they should call it “Alexander the Grating.”
The Oliver Stone-directed epic starring Colin Farrell doesn’t open until November 24, but Stone quietly screened it to some audiences this week — and the early reaction seems to be a big thumbs down.
“This movie is a mess,” writes a reviewer on the movie site AintItCoolNews.com. “According to Stone he just finished this film on Friday and, in my opinion, it looks like he rushed it out the door. . . . The story is incohesive, the acting is uninspired, and the whole look is incredibly pieced together.”
A few viewers did find something to like about the film: “The Rosario Dawson nude scene will make you worship her,” writes one.
Stone has a lot riding on the epic pic — which reportedly cost a staggering $150 million to make — and a source says the director seemed uncharacteristically subdued when he was answering questions at a screening
He's a real scholar.
Thanks for the post . . . Penny
Most ancient Greeks lived openly bisexual and polyamorous lifestyles. While the Greek man was expected to marry and raise children, he was also expected to enter into erotic and mentoring relationships with worthy youths. Intimate relationships between older adult men and male youth were not only common, they were considered a social duty to the state. Even though male homosexual relations were common, there were certain guidelines to be adhered to. Greek homosexuality was largely intergenerational. Relationships between two adult men of similar age were ununsual, and open to riducle, as were relations with overly young boys. The ancient Greeks believed in an age of consent, marked by a young man's ability to "think for himself". This age of consent ranged from adolescence to early adulthood.
These relationships were both erotic and educational. A male youth would be courted by many men, and then he would choose one to be his lover. The goal of Greek education was the attainment of male perfection -- both physical and mental perfection. This education took place in the gymnasium. The gymnasium was the center of every Greek town, and served a far greater purpose than the modern gym. The gymnasium was an elaborate structure with many rooms, baths, and hallways decorated with all sorts of art work including statues of gods and heroes. Philosophers, poets, and other intellectuals would come together in these places. Boys and men would spend their days in both intellectual and physical exercises. Youth weren't just valued for their bodies, but also for their minds -- their ability to reason and debate. Sports and even the public olympics were performed in the nude. In fact, public nudity was not at all uncommon. The body was something to be proud of. It did not elicit the feelings of shame or modesty that many of us feel in modern society.
Greek homosexuality was largely a male phenomenon, and Greek society was largely patriarchal and male dominated. The Greek ideal of beauty and intellectualism was embodied in young men. Women were viewed as mothers of a man's children, and generally excluded from public life and intellectual affairs. There were a few exceptions, as in the case of Sappho who taught at her own all girls school.
Resources:
Books:
Greek Homosexuality from the Harvard University Press
Gay Warriors: A Documentary History from the Ancient World to the Present from the New York University Press
One Hundred Years of Homosexuality by David Halperin
Web Sites:
The World History of Male Love: Male Love in Ancient Greece
A Gay History of the World: Same-Sex Love Common in Ancient Cultures
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