October Surprise??? Navy Chief (from SBVT site)

SwiftVets.com ^

[tazannie]

I hope this is good

[MistyCA]

I agree. That rap crap about Michael Jackson is getting more coverage.

[N. Beaujon]

- There is one piece of paper missing from this story that is needed before it gets legs with Drudge or any other media. It needs some documentary evidence that Kerry's original discharge was less than honorable or alternately, some supporting paperwork from the review board hearing that would have given the members the background to the request for them to consider before they approved the revised honorary discharge.

Well, thats what I thought, Finnegan, or at least that was my fear; and the reason I brought up the "food chain" issue. If this story had the proper documentation behind it there would have been other conservative papers/outlets that would have loved to break the story. The New York Post, believe me, being first in line. Or Drudge, look at what Drudge did to Bluementhal in one ten second "send". The point I was making is that it didnt pass their standards.

The fact that the story has languished and even drudge wouldnt "scoop" it tells me its not rock solid. You can run a shakey story as long as you leave enough room before the election to let all sides air their positions, then the stink just hangs in the air (See Juanita Broadrick, et al.) But unless something is so airtight (e.g. you have that smoking gun) it ends up looking like a sandbag, and in my opinion, people simply dont like to see dirty politics so close to an election.

In reality, If this story is so real, so airtight, so irrefutable the MOST damage is done by floating it early and watching as he resigns, his poll numbers sink and the documentation is passed around over and over and over again. It becomes irrefutable and the fun is in watching him sink. Look, I dont think Kerry deserves sh*t and I wouldnt give him the chance to defend or to spin anything given the choice but I just know two things: 1) Voters do not like sandbaggging*; and 2) if this story was as big as it sounds The New York Post would have broken it. FRONT PAGE NEWS, 3" TYPE.

* sandbagging, by definition, by the way means floating a story or rumor or whatever that lacks the proper foundation.

[FLCowboy,]

Tazanie, I wish you would learn how to post something of interest. If you think we should all be interested in what you found, at least tell us what it is.

[N. Beaujon]

I don't know why you are so down on the NY Sun. It's a relatively new newspaper and they seem to be doing quite well. Unfortunately, they are a subscription service so net readers don't usually see it. However, it has already been picked up on Kerryspot at the National Review Online, and I strongly suspect that it will show up in Best of the Web this afternoon at the WSJ online. Naturally it won't appear in the NY Times, WAPO, etc., so we're just back to normal, i.e. things on our side move slowly. But they move. Didn't used to happen.

I'm not down on it, I grew up on New York media and left the Northeast just as they started up the Sun. It could be the best paper in the world. My point is there is no way the New York Post would have passed on this story if it had the proper documentation behind it.

The NY Post pass on a story like this? Or Drudge for that matter? I just dont get it.

[fastattacksailor]

Actually is was the OLD New York SUN that ran that reply to a young girls letter in 1897 (Virginia O'Hanlon was the little girl in question---her father had said "If it's in the SUN, it is so")

Tho old SUN went out of circulation long ago, but the current publisher bought the name and logo rights.

[hinckley buzzard]

This will be the beginning of the end, or the end of the beginning for the 'Rats.

I sure hope you're right. I'm so sick of hearing their crap
I may soon become impolite.

[higgmeister]

also bttt

the story is there now!

[finnigan2]

" if this story was as big as it sounds The New York Post would have broken it."

- I must agree. There are so many pieces of this story which only make sense if there was some sort of "discharge" revision in 1978. Unless someone like the Swiftboat Vets are sitting on some sort of ticking time bomb, this story is DOA - but if there is anything there, we'll know by this time next week.

[sevry]

I wont indulge your snarky

Alright, then.

But your opinion seems to deny the reality of the situation. You can't watch that much tv. You'll start to believe the leftwing establishment spin. Voters won't. The spin upcoming is that JFK ultimately has succeeded in becoming JFK, thanks to the debates. But only an idiot would believe that. _I_, personally, myself, do NOT believe there are that many idiot voters, double voters, triple voters, dead voters, to cost the President re-election.

BUSH BY 8% IN NOV, 320+ ELECTORAL VOTES

[OOPisforLiberals]

I have to generally agree here: this simply isn't much of a big deal. Yeah, it's a twist in things. But we're in the snowball phase. This isn't the kind of thing that, at this point, is going to sway a significant number of people.

[Grassontop]

Does this mean that Kerrys munster head is going to roll?

[sevry]

I am so tired of cynical Republicans

The cynicism is in the liberal spin - JFKerry finally becoming, morphing into, the actual JFK. It doesn't take a village to say that. It takes an idiot. And that's who populate these talking head panels. They don't talk about Swift Vets, except disparagingly. They don't talk about anything Bush has done right, or that Kerry has done wrong. VVAW was a GOOD thing, to hear them talk. And Kerry gets to DEFINE his record, himself, week by week. Journalism? What's a journalism?

So fret not. There are real people, outside of tv people, who really will vote.

BUSH BY 8% IN NOV, 320+ ELECTORAL VOTES

If you ultimately question cynicism, or rather indifference, remember that Republicans DO NOT see the Fed as the answer to all of life's problems. If they don't have a gubment program for everything, it's because they don't believe there should be, as a principal, in keeping with the vision of our founders.

[N. Beaujon]

I am so tired of cynical Republicans
The cynicism is in the liberal spin

sevry, I was specifically directing my comments to the freepers on here who were blaming rigged polls (for everything) and biased commentators for Bush's obviously bad performance in the first debate.

I have little patience for those who cant take responsibility when the president makes mistakes or who do not understand the nature of polling or starts blanket conspiracy theories to explain results they simply don't like.

That is what I was seeing on here by a VERY few people and that is what I was responding, too. It's ok to be skeptical, its ok to be ever vigilant and it surely OK to never trust a liberal as far as you can throw them but to make blanket statements based on no knowledge is something that I cant countenance. Some people were saying things and making claims and passing themselves off as experts in fields where they clearly were not. It might be comforting for some to put your thumb in your mouth and pout but it sure as heck does nothing to advance our cause.

Taking a realistic look at where we fall short, and how we can do better is the obvious and, imo, only path to victory. It renders what the Dimocrats do to be colossally moot.

[El Gato]

the story is there now!

http://www.nysun.com/article/3107

And it's very speculative. More a matter of implications than new facts.

For example, the author makes much of Kerry's discharge coming after consideration by a board of officers, which is not done for the usual discharge. However it is done for involuntary discharges. These could be other than honorable, but then could also be honorable. For example, in this case Kerry was a standby reservist. He wasn't doing anything and wasn't obligated to do anything. He was a drag on the system, IOW. They could have wanted to slim the ranks of the standby reserve, since it was a period of cutbacks.

Not too many years after Kerry's discharge, I found myself in the same situation, more or less. The Air Force asked me to either resign my commission or find a Selected (IE, drilling) Reserve position. If I had done neither, they could have discharged me involuntarily. In the event, I found a Selected Reserve IMA position, and lost about 100 pounds so I could take it. IIRC, I asked for an extension of their deadline so I could find the position (and lose the rest of the weight, which I had neglected to mention to them. ;) )

[N. Beaujon]

- I must agree. There are so many pieces of this story which only make sense if there was some sort of "discharge" revision in 1978. Unless someone like the Swiftboat Vets are sitting on some sort of ticking time bomb, this story is DOA - but if there is anything there, we'll know by this time next week.

Exactly finnigan, and allow me to be the first to say that 1) I hope I am wrong and 2) the NY Post missed out on the story of the century and/or 3) Conrad Black has a grander plan and put out some big bucks to get a BIG story that will blow John Kerry away.

The latter is the only real explanation that might explain an October Surprise that would be a REAL October Surprise because what it would be, in effect, is an almost unprecedented media coup by a very shrewd Conrad Black to launch his embryonic newspaper into the big leagues and fast. That is an explanation, I could buy. ;)

[bjcintennessee]

boy, one tiny little mistake........

I gotta love your sense of humor -- lol!

[Gator Bill]

If it's true that his discharge was not honorable - Hillary MUST HAVE KNOWN. With her access to the FBI files she probably has a lot of ammunition and is just waiting to use it.

[higgmeister]

Your RIF under the circumstances you describe
would not have been less than honorable and would
therefore not have required a board review
to upgrade it later.

[TLI]

They're push-polls. They're designed to make Kerry look good. They don't reflect the electorate.

That was not the point. The point was (is) that despite the obvious, sKerry "supporters" will not back off of a looser. Typically, a political looser will have the numbers decrease slightly, reflecting the voters that want to say they "voted" for the winner. That ain't happening. Even when their looser is going down in flames.

(me)
"Scary, but revealing as to the mentality of the core left (communists) which disguise themselves by claiming to be "democrats." "

And when they are faced with four more years of adult supervision they are gonna absolutely go off the deep end. The worst is that right now they "think" they are winning, Go check DU. Frantic delusional just-below-the-surface panic is thick in there. As for the run of the mill dem, well, they are already doing drive-by shootings and gang attacks of Bush campaign offices. When faced with reality . . . .

[sevry]

Taking a realistic look at where we fall short,

It comes down to issues and policies, regardless of the man. Kerry is bold in stating he has a 'litmus test' for Court appointees. That won't bother the LM, since the 'litmus test' applies only to conservatives, anyway, and those who appoint them. It's typical, and is one of the main issues. Court appointees is right up there with the war on terror. It's the issue that divides the country. And I think other opinions tend to be symptomatic.

I've said, for months, this isn't a race for the 'muddled middle' or the 'swing state'. It's an election for the base, on both sides. Who turns out absentee or election day? Who is the most forceful in challenging people who vote 20 times? And so on.

Given that, there's the simple reality beyond media spin and indifference to the truth in America:

BUSH BY 8% IN NOV, 320+ ELECTORAL VOTES