Posted on 09/10/2004 3:18:38 PM PDT by Howlin
Edited on 09/10/2004 4:53:58 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
Have at it.
******Transcript************
'KEY CHALLENGES TO NATIONAL GUARD DOCUMENTS ANSWERED'
Fri Sep 10 2004 19:03:11 ET
The biggest challenges to the authenticity of the documents featured in the 60 MINUTES segment on President Bush's Texas National Guard service are answered in a report to be broadcast on the CBS EVENING NEWS tonight (6:30-7:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network. The report states that the type style, typewriter and the superscript function critics claim did not exist at the time the memos from President Bush's former Texas National Guard commander were typed were indeed all available. In fact, similar raised "th" superscripts have been found on other National Guard documents the White House has released from the president's file.
Furthermore, Marcel Mately, the document and handwriting expert used to authenticate the documents for CBS News and 60 MINUTES, asserts that copies of the memos critics are examining have been degraded by reproduction though photocopying, computer scanning and faxing and are not reliable representations of the memos.
A transcript is attached:
BUSH DOCUMENTS
EVENING NEWS WITH DAN RATHER
9-10-04
Rather Lead In: There were attacks today on the CBS News "60 Minutes" report this week raising new questions about President Bush's Vietnam-era time in the Texas Air National Guard. The questions raised by our report include:
--Did a wealthy Texas oilman-friend of the Bush family use his influence with the speaker of the Texas House of Representatives .. to get George W. Bush a coveted slot in the National Guard .. keeping him out of the draft and any probable service IN Vietnam?
--Did Lieutenant Bush refuse a direct order from his commanding officer?
--Was Lieutenant. Bush suspended for failure to perform up to standards?
--Did Lieutenant Bush ever take a physical he was required and ordered to take? If not, why not?
--And did Lieutenant Bush, in fact, complete his commitment to the Guard?
These questions grew out of new witnesses and new evidence -- including documents written by Lieutenant Bush's squadron commander.
Today, on the internet and elsewhere, some people -- including many who are partisan political operatives -- concentrated not on the key questions the overall story raised but on the documents that were part of the support of the story.
They alleged the documents are FAKE.
Rather: MANY OF THOSE RAISING QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CBS DOCUMENTS HAVE FOCUSED ON SOMETHING CALLED SUPERSCRIPT... A KEY THAT AUTOMATICALLY TYPES A RAISED "TH". CRITICS CLAIM TYPEWRITERS DIDN'T HAVE THAT ABILITY IN THE 70S. BUT SOME MODELS DID....IN FACT, OTHER BUSH MILITARY RECORDS ALREADY OFFICIALLY RELEASED BY THE WHITE HOUSE ITSELF SHOW THE SAME SUPERSCRIPT.
HERE'S ONE..... FROM 1968.
SOME ANALYSTS OUTSIDE CBS SAY THEY BELIEVE THE TYPEFACE ON THESE MEMOS IS NEW TIMES ROMAN.... WHICH THEY CLAIM WAS NOT AVAILABLE IN THE 1970S.
BUT THE OWNER OF THE COMPANY THAT DISTRIBUTES THIS TYPING STYLE.... SAYS IT HAS BEEN AVAILABE SINCE 1931. DOCUMENT AND HANDWRITING EXAMINER MARCEL MATLEY ANALYZED THE DOCUMENTS FOR CBS NEWS.
HE SAYS HE BELIEVES THEY ARE REAL...BUT IS CONCERNED ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT IS BEING EXAMINED BY SOME OF THE PEOPLE QUESTIONING THE DOCUMENTS....BECAUSE DETIORATION OCCURS EACH TIME A DOCUMENT IS REPRODUCED.....AND THE DOCUMENTS BEING ANALYZED OUTSIDE OF CBS HAVEBEEN PHOTOCOPIED, FAXED, SCANNED AND DOWNLOADED.... AND ARE FAR REMOVED FROM THE DOCUMENTS CBS STARTED WITH WHICH WERE ALSO PHOTOCOPIES.
DOCUMENT AND HANDWRITING EXAMINER MARCEL MATLEY DID THIS INTERVIEW WITH US PRIOR TO THE 60 MINUTES BROADCAST.
HE LOOKED AT THE DOCUMENTS AND THE SIGNATURES OF COLONEL JERRY KILLIAN.... COMPARING KNOWN DOCUMENTS WITH THE COLONEL'S SIGNATURE ON THE NEWSLY DISCOVERED ONES.
Matley: "WE LOOK BASICALLY AT WHAT'S CALLED SIGNIFICANT OR INSIGNIFICANT FEATURES TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT'S THE SAME PERSON OR NOT. I HAVE NO PROBLEM IDENTIFYING THEM.
I WOULD SAY BASED ON OUR AVAILABLE HANDWRITING EVIDENCE, YES. THIS IS THE SAME PERSON."
Rather: MATLEY FINDS THE SIGNAT'URES TO BE SOME OF THE MOST COMPELLING EVIDENCE...WE TALKED TO HIM AGAIN TODAY BY SATELLITE.
Matley "SINCE IT IS REPRESENTED THAT SOME OF THEM ARE DEFINITELY HIS... THEN WE CAN CONCLUDE THEY ARE HIS SIGNATURES."
Rather: "ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT QUESTIONS COME ABOUT THESE. WE'RE NOT, BUT I WAS WONDERING IF YOU'RE SURPRISED."
Matley: "I KNEW GOING IN THAT THIS WAS DYNAMITE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER AND I KNEW THAT POTENTIALLY IT WAS FAR MORE POTENTIAL DAMAGE TO ME PROFESSIONALLY THAN BENEFIT ME. AND I KNEW THAT. BUT WE SEEK THE TRUTH. THAT'S WHAT WE DO. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PUT YOURSELF OUT. TO SEEK THE TRUTH AND TAKE WHAT COMES FROM IT."
Rather: ROBERT STRONG WAS AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER FOR THE TEXAS AIR NATIONAL GUARD DURING THE VIETNAM YEARS. HE KNEW COL. JERRY KILLIAN, THE MAN CREDITED WITH WRITING THE DOCUMENTS.... AND PAPER WORK... LIKE THESE DOCUMENTS...WAS HIS SPECIALTY. HE IS STANDING BY HIS JUDGEMENT THAT THE DOCUMENTS ARE REAL.
Rather: "WHEN YOU READ THROUGH THESE DOCUMENTS, IS THERE ANY DOUBT IN YOUR MIND THAT THESE ARE GENUINE?"
Strong: "WELL,, THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE WAY BUSINESS WAS DONE AT THAT TIME. THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE MAN THAT I REMEMBER JERRY KILLIAN BEING. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING IN THE DOCUMENTS THAT'S DISCORDANT WITH WHAT WERE THE TIMES, WHAT WERE THE SITUATION OR WHAT WERE THE PEOPLE INVOLVED."
Rather: STRONG SAYS THE HIGHLY CHARGED POLITICAL ATMOSPHERE OF THE GUARD AT THE TIME... WAS PERFECTLY REPRESENTED IN THE NEW DOCUMENTS
Strong: "IT VERGED ON OUTRIGHT CORRUPTION IN TERMS OF THE FAVORS THAT WERE DONE, THE POWER THAT WAS TRADED. AND IT WAS UNCONSCIONABLE. FROM A MORAL AND ETHICAL STANDPOINT. IT WAS UNCONSCIONABLE."
Rather: IT IS THE INFORMATION IN THE NEW DOCUMENTS THAT IS MOST COMPELLING FOR PEOPLE FAMILIAR WITH PRESIDENT BUSH'S RECORD IN THE NATIONAL GUARD. AUTHOR JIM MORE HAS WRITTEN TWO BOOKS ON THE SUBJECT.
Rather: "YOU'VE STUDIED PRESIDENT BUSH'S RECORDS FOR 10 YEARS.. ARE THESE DOCUMENTS CONSISTENT WITH THE RECORD AS YOU KNOW IT?"
Moore: "THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY CONSISTENT WITH THE RECORDS AS I KNOW IT."
Rather: "PUT IT IN CONTEXT AND PERSPECTIVE FOR US ... THE STORY AND WHAT WE CALL THE COUNTERATTACK ON THE STORY. WHERE ARE WE RIGHT NOW?
Moore "I THINK WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS SOME INCRIMINATING DOCUMENTS HAVE COME OUT. THE WHITE HOUSE, YOU SHOULD REMEMBER, HAS NOT DISCREDITED THE DOCUMENTS. THEY'RE RELYING ON THE BLOGOSPHERE AND OTHER PEOPLE TO DO THAT. BECAUSE THE WHITE HOUSE PROBABLY KNOWS THESE DOCUMENTS ARE IN FACT REAL."
Rather Tag: The "60 Minutes" report was based NOT solely on the recovered documents .. but on a preponderance of evidence .. including documents that were provided by un-impeachable sources .. and interviews with former officials of the Texas National Guard. If any definitive evidence to the contrary of our story is found, we will report it.
So far, there is none.
They did, but why would Killian have photocopied what CBS calls his "personal files"? It makes no sense.
??? Do tell....
He was last night. He and Gerry were leaning on each other to convince themselves this was all a mean nasty Republican trick. I have doubts he'll have done a 180 over night, but we'll see.
No, not convenient: damning. Only *original* documents can ever, ever, ever, ever, ever be fully authenticated as real.
No copy can ever be authenticated 100%.
CBS admits that it has *never* had the originals. Thus, CBS is admiting that it published a story based upon documents (read: copies) that can't be authenticated.
On the other hand, copies can be proven to be fakes/forgeries.
...And that's all that CBS has, copies...
1 Full Legislative Day Left Until The AWB Expires
I just did some cursory checking and found several references. I did not see the interview, but how old was this Marcel Matley? His resume says he was born in 1933. This must be his son judging from the voice on radio.
http://nick.assumption.edu/WebVAX/Foster/matley.html
Matley was also involved in the Foster case as a handwriting expert.
I thought the same thing when I watched him. Right at the end, when he said (to the effect) that they are sticking to their story and no evidence has been presented thus far to refute it. It was the way he looked into the camera, as though he were telling his cocktail party friends and his handlers at the DNC that this was the plan.
As an aside - I have not had CBS News on in my house for at least ten years. I was kinda surprised at how awful he looked. Besides the sore throat from probably screaming all day - he just looked washed up. Definitely not the guy who my parents used to watch.
Fred and Mort both cannot get a complete sentence out without stuttering and halting and searching for the next thought. It is so painful to watch Juan throw these 75 mile an hour fastballs waist high over the sweet part of the plate and Mort and Fred continually foul-tip them. I find myself frustrated and wanting to scream at the TV set.
"Vocie sounds like he has been crying."
I was waiting for someone else to say if first. My first thought on hearing the voice was that he had been crying, I even told my wife that I suspected it. Most men don't cry unless under EXTREME stress and the voice never sounds the same until at least one night of sound sleep is had. Rather probably did not sleep all night last night, he may have also been involved in multiple shouting sessions.
Congressman / Billybob
Congressman / Billybob
CBS is going to get eaten alive... it's no longer the pillar of broadcast that it once was. Rather will end up a suicide. Why do they go through with it? He could simply resign in disgrace, and take his winnings somewhere in retirement, in a country where they don't know his face so well.
If he said "I KNOW this is true," rather than "I believe" then let me offer my layman's diagnosis: the guy is delusional.
Which I've known all along anyway.
Let's not celebrate too hard. It's the "Paul & Daisy Soros Fellowships for New Americans"...still trying to determine the relationship between Paul and Daisy and George...
Hmm, sounds similar to the speculation that the Al-Qaida leader whose tape was just released might have been trying to send a secret message to his supporters!
Done.
Thanks!
I'm doing googles. It is on other sources. Plus I just showed shared server space.
PLUS I provided the information from the source.
You prove it isn't true.
Thanks for the report. So the only "expert" contending that these documents are real is the guy on the CBS payroll for the original report. And he's only an expert in signatures, not typefaces.
Agreed. I feel that way often, particularly about Mort who seems consitutionally incapable of getting his thoughts out quickly and succinctly.
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