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60 Minutes Documents on Bush Might Be Fake
CNS News ^ | September 9, 2004 | Melanie Hunter

Posted on 09/09/2004 11:44:01 AM PDT by Peach

Thursday, September 09, 2004 2:41 PM EST

By Melanie Hunter CNSNews.com Deputy Managing Editor September 09, 2004 02:34 pm

'60 Minutes' Documents on Bush Might Be Fake

(CNSNews.com) - The 32-year-old documents produced Wednesday by the CBS News program "60 Minutes," shedding a negative light on President Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard, may have been forged using a current word processing program, according to typography experts. Three independent typography experts told CNSNews.com they were suspicious of the documents from 1972 and 1973 because they were typed using a proportional font, not common at that time, and they used a superscript font feature found in today's Microsoft Word program. More to Come


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; allyourfakes; arebelongtous; bush; camejo; caught; cbs; cheney; dubya; edwards; election; fake; gwb; kerry; lies; malignantleftists; mediabias; nader; napalminthemorning; nationalguard; ratherbiased; seebsnews; wrongfontwrongtime
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To: BonnieJ

"But HOW do we get the word out about the fraud beyond the world of the Internet?"

Email. Pass the word along to everyone in your address book so they can pass the story to everyone in theirs. At some point, Fox or some other non-internet outlet will pick it up.


161 posted on 09/09/2004 12:42:32 PM PDT by Owl558 (Pardon my spelling)
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To: Owl558

Ahem, I am a dudette. :-)

And thanks to the people who did the legwork; I just put the thread up.


162 posted on 09/09/2004 12:42:42 PM PDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: Polybius

I understand that, but there are certain commonalities that really don't change, especially with regard to the first letter of a first or last name. My signature always starts out with an identifiably similar "B" and then goes to hell from there, but the "B" is always structurally the same. The "K" in "Killian" in these signatures is significantly different.


163 posted on 09/09/2004 12:43:41 PM PDT by william clark
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To: Howlin

A font expert weighs in:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1211248/posts


164 posted on 09/09/2004 12:44:06 PM PDT by Peach (The Clinton's pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Buckhead
The guy on Little Green Footballs has superimposed the pdf of the memo from the CBS website with one he created with MS Word in Times New Roman 12. They are exact, perfect, inerrant duplicates.

Which proves that, what? MS copied an IBM executive (not selectric) typewriter font and spacing exactly? I would have hoped that they would.

If CBS has the originals, it should be a piece of cake to prove that they were at least done on a real typewriter (impact marks, etc.)

We're handing them lots of ammunition to fire back at us.

Believe me, if we would nail Dan Rather with this, I'd be jumping for joy. But I smell a trap.

165 posted on 09/09/2004 12:45:56 PM PDT by narby (CBS - The new Democrat 527)
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To: Howlin

"Ahem, I am a dudette. :-)"

Sorry, I meant my comments with all dude respect.

I saw your handle and it made me think of General Howlin Mad Smith!


166 posted on 09/09/2004 12:47:19 PM PDT by Owl558 (Pardon my spelling)
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To: Owl558

No problem; lots of people use to make that mistake.

I'm a gull that posts like a really mean guy. :-)


167 posted on 09/09/2004 12:49:01 PM PDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: plushaye

< I truly salute the Freepers who did the analyses on this. Some of the most amazing investigations I've ever seen, and done in such a short time period too. >

Affirmative on that.




168 posted on 09/09/2004 12:49:37 PM PDT by mtntop3 ("He who must know before he believes will never come to full knowledge.")
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To: Howlin

I never knew you were a dudette until today! I'm a bubbette but finally removed it from my tag.


169 posted on 09/09/2004 12:49:45 PM PDT by TXBubba ( Democrats: If they don't abort you then they will tax you to death.)
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To: Peach
5--No way there were superscripts back then. No way. Even if it was theoretically possible (which it wasn't), the national guard isn't exactly an early-adopter of technology. This ability wasn't even available at any price for several years.

My understanding is that there were very high end typewriters with such things. Since these were done for the personal CYA file of this Lt Col. I'll bet he didn't even do them at the squadron. We're talking ANG, right? Did he have a day job? Maybe in a law office, with a secretary that would NOT have typed things exactly the military way?

I'm just guessing, but I think CBS is going to win this one, and they'll be able to trash us as idiots for pursuing it. At the same time, we're handing them attention on this subject, when we should be getting it behind us.

170 posted on 09/09/2004 12:50:41 PM PDT by narby (CBS - The new Democrat 527)
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To: narby

Fonts are copywrited


171 posted on 09/09/2004 12:51:00 PM PDT by gilliam
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To: narby
Which proves that, what? MS copied an IBM executive (not selectric) typewriter font and spacing exactly? I would have hoped that they would.

I understand your skepticism. I'm sure MS did implement the Times font very much as IBM did. But note that the word wrap is the same, also, despite the fact that the military used a different size paper. Also the line spacing. many things independent of the font seem to be just as word processed.
Looks very suspicious to me.
172 posted on 09/09/2004 12:51:09 PM PDT by RetroSexual
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To: narby
If CBS has the originals, it should be a piece of cake to prove that they were at least done on a real typewriter (impact marks, etc.)

Agreed, but what about the signatures on the memos?

173 posted on 09/09/2004 12:52:47 PM PDT by ScreamingFist (Peace through Ignorance)
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To: william clark
I understand that, but there are certain commonalities that really don't change, especially with regard to the first letter of a first or last name. My signature always starts out with an identifiably similar "B" and then goes to hell from there, but the "B" is always structurally the same. The "K" in "Killian" in these signatures is significantly different.

Secretaries often signed for their bosses. I'm going to try and find this guys resume somewhere. I'll bet he had a secretary in a posh office and that explains the non-military terms, high end typewriter and signature.

We're going to get embarrassed here.

(I really hope it's ME that gets embarrassed when someone nails CBS, but I'm afraid that CBS might just be right - these memo's are really worthless - we shouldn't even keep them in the press)

174 posted on 09/09/2004 12:54:28 PM PDT by narby (CBS - The new Democrat 527)
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To: TXBubba

Yep, I am. Nasty, are't I? :-)


175 posted on 09/09/2004 12:56:20 PM PDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: narby

Not to worry. Mash here: http://www.indcjournal.com/

They interviewed one of the top forensic typography experts in the world, and he is 90+% sure they are fakes, based on the font in the fakes not matching fonts on machines available at the time, based on an encyclopedic catalog of all available fonts.

That is to say noting of the dozens of other indicators of forgery which have yet to be refuted.


176 posted on 09/09/2004 12:56:56 PM PDT by Buckhead
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To: Maringa

Would it be possible to date the paper of the original?


177 posted on 09/09/2004 12:58:04 PM PDT by Carolinamom
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To: Howlin

Looks like the AP is trying to claim the WH released forged documents:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1211250/posts


178 posted on 09/09/2004 12:58:47 PM PDT by Peach (The Clinton's pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Buckhead
I truly hope you're right.

It'd be so great to nail Dan Rather for the Rat slime he is.

179 posted on 09/09/2004 1:00:23 PM PDT by narby (CBS - The new Democrat 527)
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To: BonnieJ

< But HOW do we get the word out about the fraud beyond the world of the Internet? >

No problem. It's called news competition - along with (equally important) not wanting to look bad. There's a point where they have to go with it. They may try to spin it, but they can not ignore it; and if they do, they only degrade themselves even further as news sources.

We are evolving into the stage where the media begins to blame Kerry and his people (It's not our fault, says the media, it's Kerry's).



180 posted on 09/09/2004 1:00:48 PM PDT by mtntop3 ("He who must know before he believes will never come to full knowledge.")
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