Posted on 09/07/2004 4:46:21 PM PDT by Sub-Driver
AP: Lawsuit Gets Bush Guard Papers Out
2 minutes ago
By MATT KELLEY, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - President Bush (news - web sites) was ranked in the middle of his Air National Guard class and flew more than 336 hours in a fighter jet before letting his pilot status lapse and missing a key readiness drill, according to his flight records belatedly uncovered Tuesday under the Freedom of Information Act.
The Pentagon (news - web sites) and Bush's campaign have claimed for months that all records detailing his fighter pilot career have been made public, but defense officials said they found two dozen new records detailing his training and flight logs after The Associated Press filed a lawsuit and crafted new requests under the public records law.
"Previous requests from other requesters for President Bush's Individual Flight Records did not lead to the discovery of these records because at the time President Bush left the service, flight records were subject to retention for only 24 months and we understood that neither the Air Force nor the Texas Air National Guard retained such records thereafter," the Pentagon told the AP.
"Out of an abundance of caution," the government "searched a file that had been preserved in spite of this policy" and found the Bush records, the letter said. "The Department of Defense (news - web sites) regrets this oversight during the previous search efforts."
The records show Bush, a lieutenant in the Texas Air National Guard, was ranked No. 22 in a class of 53 pilots when he finished his flight training at Moody Air Force Base in Georgia in 1969.
Over the next three years, he logged 326.4 hours as a pilot and an additional 9.9 hours as a co-pilot, mostly in his the F-102a jet used to intercept
(Excerpt) Read more at story.news.yahoo.com ...
Did you see 134? What would account for that discrepancy?
http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=9259 This article is all I need to know..case closed."
Thank you. I am not crazy.
According to Tom Lipscomb, Bush has not signed an SF 180.
Poor reporting
Gee--didn't Kerry petition to get out of the Navy early? Where was he while he was still (technically) on active duty? Oh yeah, meeting with N Vietnamese officials in Paris trying to negotiate an American surrender.
Y'know...this whole thing is just plain silly. Now, I was only 10 years old in 1972, but I'm pretty sure that the guys sitting alert @ Randolph in San Antonio (or Dallas or whatever Guard Base then 1stLt Bush was assigned to) weren't in receipt of hot intelligence expecting an attack on Texas Stadium from (Cuba? Mexico? Guatemala? etc.), so to say the boss absconded in the face of a potential attack is silly ("Alright comrades, let's attack...Texas A&M!"). He went to work on a campaign in AL, and Maxwell AFB (Montgomery) isn't a tactical base, and the Guard unit in Birmingham was a bomber unit. There is no plausible reason to doubt that. He comes from a political family, he made no secret of that. Meanwhile, back in the Lone Star State, it was the Cold War...guess what, fighter guys sat alert... everywhere, that's what they did. Once in a while they were launched for various reasons. I'm sure GWB sat 4 hours in a cocked airplane in a revetment from time to time. Guess what, fighter guys in the Guard STILL sit alert...who d'you think flew over Manhattan on 9/11?
As for flight training, I went through the Navy pipeline about 15 years ago, and I currently instruct in the same squadron I earned my wings in. 50% of those who earn their wings finish in the bottom half, do the math. Circa 1970, I'd bet the attrition rate in Air Force UPT was greater than 50%. To graduate 22 of 53, puts you in the top 42%, so conservatively, of the officers starting flight training, the boss was probably in the top quarter. Keep in mind too, that there's typically a pipeline selection (jets, heavies, etc.) prior to completion, which again shrinks the pool, with the high performers typically going jets. I don't know (and don't much care) what the percentage breakdown by airframe is in the ChAir Force, but I'll stick by my estimate that top 25% is probably right at least. Consider airsickness, aviation adaptability, academic training, stick & rudder skills, procedural recall, and a bunch of other jargon...it's rare to find a developing pilot who is truly solid in all areas, trust me, I see all kinds every day. So, he probably was a serviceable pilot. 300+ hours in three years is probably about right for anything other than a training command, which would be higher, but he wasn't in a training command.
See AFPhys FFI, but in my service, commands are allowed X flight hours per airframe per year in their budget. Multiply that by the number of airframes in the squadron to get squadron flight hours, divide that by the number of pilots to get hours per pilot. Most of 1stLt Bush's contemporaries probably were (same as today) working toward airline jobs. What looks good on a resume? Flight hours. If the war is winding down, the Guard is reducing pilot population, the boys are looking for alternate employment, probably in a big hunk of Boeing sky iron. So, the squadron commander was probably happy to detach any pilot to a nonflying job, meant those 100 or so hours per year could be divvied up among the rest of the fellas. The whole issue is irrelevant and happens all the time.
Clinton went to Oxford and didn't inhale. Gore maltreated his Secret Serve agents, military aides and Marine pilots (no, you'll never hear it directly because they sign a nondisclosure document to keep quiet, but there are plenty of witnesses to the rudeness of the Clinton years...one of my best friends flew Marine One, and all he has to say about the Clinton presidency is that Tipper Gore is quite sweet in person and Chelsea was quiet.) He says nothing about anyone else. I, and my friends aren't running for office, but we're pretty sure who we're voting for.
"The records show Bush, a lieutenant in the Texas Air National Guard, was ranked No. 22 in a class of 53 pilots when he finished his flight training at Moody Air Force Base in Georgia in 1969."
Top 40ish in his class :)
OK, I'm all ears. This is "significant" why??
GWB had asked and been granted months before that date permission to move temporarily to Alabama. Is the significance the GWB was supposed to divine via ESP that in October an important mission would be given to his unit and he'd better get the hell out of Dodge?
What's the "significance"?????????
See, you're missing the point on "Significantly". Back in the good old days of the USSR, you could tell when Pravda was lying because an article would start out: "As everyone knows..." "Significantly" means, "We don't see any connection here either, but we're hoping you're too dull to pick it up..." :)
Yet the AP ignored the Swiftboat vets, and is silent about Kerry's treasonous behavior after returning from Viet Nam. Oh sure, no bias.
Hey AP;
BOO!
That's just wonderful, Mr Kelly. When are you and the AP going to sue for the release of Kerry's records, since he is the guy running for President based on his military service? Or does he get a free pass?
Not bad for a dummy, eh? ;)
He'd be welcome in my Latin class.
I hope my sons do well in Latin when they get to that point in their education (about six years). The private high school I attended dropped Latin the year before I got there. It's the only thing I regret about my time there.
This shows that
A) Bush served in Alabama in October...which explains why he was not in Texas at the time. WE SEE THE AP ADMIT HERE, THAT BUSH HAD SECURED PERMISSION TO SERVER IN ALABAMA IN OCTOBER (as well as other months)of 72 etc.
B)It also shows that BUSH WAS A GOOD PILOT.
He was ranked near the middle of his graduation flight class.
FOLKS..THAT'S NOT EASY! Does the AP even understand how hard it is to even get in to flight training...
Do they realize how many people apply for pilot training...and get turned down...SMART PEOPLE AT THAT..
To even get into flight school shows that you tested well.
To finish in the middle of a group of individuals who were so smart that they got accepted to flight school...THAT'S AWSOME.
Notice how the print out of Bush's pay stub...is not large enough to see the wording.
Is the AP hoping that people will just go on their word alone?
Can anyone find a copy of that and post it.
One that can actually be read.
Along came the '72 offensive and once again the NVA got their ass kicked; they were through. The Paris talks resumed and the situation in VN was pretty much a stalemate. Remnants of the VC still caused trouble in the south but they had never regained the strength they had once had and had lost during the '68 Tet offensive.
The final outcome was all political, thanks to Kerry and the VVAW and anti-US activists like Jane Fonda & Tom Hayden.
info@ap.org
suggested comments:
Please forward to Matt Kelley and the national editor:
"Great job AP! Now are you also suing to get Kerry's records?"
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