Ready to rumble? Village Voice Author, Rick Perlstein, Here to Debate the Freeper Horde

08/03/2004 | Rick Perlstein

[dead]

Opening Statement

Dear FRiends:

I once suffered two great frustrations in being a freelance political writer. First, the loneliness: you put an article out there, and you might as well have thrown it down a black hole for all the response you get. Second, the ghettoization: when you do get response, it would be from folks you agree with. Not fun for folks like me who reliish--no, crave and need--political argument.

Then came the Internet, the blogs--and: problem solved.

I have especially enjoyed having my articles in the Village Voice posted on Free Republic by "dead," and arguing about them here. The only frustration is that I never have enough time--and sometimes no time--to respond as the threads are going on. That is why I arranged for an entire afternoon--this afternoon--to argue on Free Republic. Check out my articles and have at me.

A little background: I am a proud leftist who specializes in writing about conservatives. I have always admired conservatives for their political idealism, acumen, stalwartness, and devotion. I have also admired some of their ideas--especially the commitment to distrusting grand social schemes, and the deep sense of the inherent flaws in human nature. (To my mind the best minds in the liberal tradition have encompassed these ideals, while still maintaining that robust social reform is still possible and desirable. My favorite example is the Protestant theologian Reinhold Niebuhr, author of the Serenity Prayer and a great liberal Democrat.)

Lately, however, I've become mad at the right, and have written about it with an anger not been present in my previous writings. It began with the ascension of George Bush, when I detected many conservatives beginning to care more about power than principles. The right began to seem less interesting to me--more whiny, more shallow--and, what's more, in what I saw as an uncritical devotion to President Bush, often in retreat from its best insights about human nature.

I made my strongest such claim in a Village Voice article two weeks ago in which I, after much thought, chose to say conservatism was "verging on becoming an un-American creed" for the widespread way conservatives are ignoring the lessons of James Madison's great insights in Federalist 51 that in America we are supposed to place our ultimate trust in laws, not men.

Finally, in what I see as the errors of the Iraq campaign, I recognize the worst aspects of arrogant left-wing utopianism: the idea that you can remake a whole society and region through sheer force of will. I think Iraq is a tragic disaster (though for the time being the country is probably better off than it was when Saddam was around--but only, I fear, for the time being).

I am also, by the way, a pretty strong critic of my own side, as can be seen in my latest Village Voice piece.

So: I'm yours for the day--until 7:10 pm CST, when I'm off to compete in my weekly trivia contest at the University of Chicago Pub. Until then: Are you ready to rumble?

Respectfully,
Rick Perlstein

[Perlstein]

<<1. Can you post, verbatim, what you consider to be Bush's worst lie?>> Most brazen lie, ie most undeniably a lie, or his most consequential lie?

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

Do you believe in instinct?
------
I can't answer this one. I guess I do. Refine the question, please.

It may seem that I am inferring something, but I'm not. Those who do not believe in instinct (i.e. a gut reaction that cannot be supported by easily seen or recognized evidence) tend to discount emotions or feelings as having any validity. Those who rely heavily upon instinct tend to disregard evidence contrary to what they feel. Your ambivilant answer may be your final answer: you believe in it but do not rely upon it.

Do you believe in absolutes as they pertain to :science? :faith? :politics? :philosphy?
------
I won't satisfy you on this one. I'm prety much a philosophical pragmatist.

Truthful dodge, and not a poorly chosen one.

Do you believe in the law of nature (the strong survive at the expense of the weak)?
-----
Again, could you refine the question? I don't know what you mean. I do believe, with Isaiah Berlin, that often, "freedom for the wolf is death to the lamb."

Good quote. Many believe in the first part of the law of nature, that is the strong survive. Do you believe that the strong surviving must (not should) always come at the expense of the weak?

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...I think liberals and conservatives share many ends, but disagree on the means. We both want people to be happy, healthy, fed, sheltered, safe, etc...

Puh-leez.

The liberals want people poor, crime-ridden, welfare-dependent, and resentful. That way, they'll vote Democrat.

[7.62 x 51mm]

Rick,

Why does a Jew side with anti-semites, murderers, Jew-hating and murdering Muslim terrorists and left-wing wacko America-haters? It's a sad commentary on your greatly-flawed character that you actively support and nourish those who would terrorize, maim and murder the world's innocents.

Your fascination with socialism, communism and Islamo-fascism - as with that of your twisted, liberal-demokkkRAT comrades - is legion and beyond disgusting. It is blatantly treasonous and seditous. It is obvious that you are part of The Enemy Within™.

As a co-member of the Fourth Estate and the Fifth Column, you personify the absolute worst of the human condition. To worry about the enemy's rights, while innocents are being slaughtered worldwide, is beyond the pale of conscience and civility. How do you look at your mug in the mirror and not be ashamed and offended?

[Miss Marple]

Well, I have made my comment, and I am going to a more worthwhile thread. I would bet cash money this whole thread will be printed in the Village Voice or some other leftist publication, complete with smarmy comments, lies, and mockery of our grammar and spelling errors (of which I just made a few in my haste to reply).

[Perlstein]

Oh, what the hell. I won't wait. Worst lie: After the September 11 attacks, the EPA told New Yorkers it was safe to live and work near Ground Zero. It turns out that under White House pressure, the EPA lied about the data it had and omitted important information about the quality of the air and what New Yorkers needed to do to stay healthy.

[lugsoul]

I don't know if it has been spent, distributed, funded, burned, or flushed. What I do know is that one does not equal the other, and that it is disingenuous to cite to an article that says one thing in support of a completely different proposition.

As far as "what can the President do," I feel pretty confident that, if he thought the process was dragging along more slowly than he liked, he could do something about it. Not just this President. Any President.

[alisasny]

sort of like how can one compare killing an unborn baby to Michael Bolton....ARGHHHH

[Perlstein]

<<2. Do you agree it is an important thing to be popular among the world/international community?>> Yes. Of course. Unless we have a military big enough to take on all the bad guys in the world at the same time, which we will have to do if America loses all its power of moral persuasion, so force is all it has left.

[WOSG]

"To: Perlstein Juanita Broaddrick accused Bill Clinton of raping her. Do you believe her? ---- Not sure. I certainly don't trust Bill Clinton. But I certainly don't know enough about Broaddrick to trust her."

What is it about proven fraud Joe Wilson that causes you to trust him more than Ms Broaddrick?

Admit it: It's the person that he's attacking that makes the difference.

You 'trust' those who are selling the story you want to buy. You can have your intellectual honesty reputation back by admitting Joe Wilson was a charlatan who made false allegations.

Are you ready to retract your earlier mistake of using Joe Wilson as a source for phony claims?

[Perlstein]

3. Do you agree that the quickest way to be popular among the international community is to turn Israel into a glass parking lot?

No.

[Ichneumon]

[Overall vet spending is up faster under Bush in ~3 years than Clinton in 8. If that is a "cut," I'm Bill Gates.]

---See this

Your article fails to support your assertion. Did you not understand it, or are you being disingenuous? Neither option inspires confidence.

In any case, in my experience that sort of behavior is typical for liberals. And I say that as someone who voted for Carter, Dukakis, Mondale, and Clinton (in 1992 -- by 1996 I had realized that the Democratic party was rapidly going insane). I proudly voted for Bush in 2000, and will proudly do so again this November.

[Indy Pendance]

" you shouldn't waste your time with punks!"

These punks are shaping the democrat party, they are your 'mainstream' voters. Look at Michael Moore et al with their pure lies and propagandga. Have you read this? Fifty-nine Deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11. Do you condone throwing marbles under the police force's horses in NYC during the Republican National Convention, this is just one example? This is the face of the new democrats. You're party is so far left and out their, you are losing mainstream America. Until you clean up the losers, you will lose more and more support. 1994 was just the beginning. Be prepared for a fatal lose this November. Regular folks, democrats or republicans, do not take to such pure evil hatred.

[BADROTOFINGER]

This is a very specific charge that I'm happy to make in more detail. The rest of the world besides the US funnels its AIDS funds through something called the Global Fund, the international coaltion dedicated to reducing the spread of aid. But plans to cut America's contributions by 65% in 2005, which will probably bankrupt it.

Fruedian slip there? That is the primary goal of these 'global funds' denying 'aid' to those who need it and managing to funnel it into their own pockets. Oil For Food, the big UN Hunger Meeting (gourmet feast) meeting while thousands went starving RIGHT OUTSIDE THE DOOR. Send your money, dont use the force of government arms to steal and send mine, ok?...JFK

[Howlin]

He worked hard with McCain to try to heal the wounds of Vietnam; he didn't have to do that, and it didn't help him politically.

You show your ignorance; Village Voice is it?

Perhaps you should take at look at your own paper's archives.

When John Kerry's Courage Went M.I.A.

[lugsoul]

You are having trouble keeping your questionable statements straight.

"Clearly Bush distributed more than that last year, per the source ($2 Billion)."

That's your quote. You have a source that says he distributed that much?

Since you have trouble keeping things straight, I'll repeat myself. I don't know how much has been distributed. All I know is that what you claimed isn't supported by what you cited. Par.

[alisasny]

You prove hope and why kerry is going to lose in a landslide : )

I was a "dumby" for quite some time in my youth and finally woke up in my early 20's : )

[Last Visible Dog]

Do you really want to count up the roll calls of previous senators running for president against Kerry's? That's just what people do when they run for president. if the senate doesn't like it--well, they make their own rules, and they can change them. They don't seem inclined to.

You are not up on the facts, but that does not stop you from making baseless claims.

The last Republican Senator to run for President was Dole, he resigned from the Senate when he started his campaign.

[Howlin]

I would bet cash money this whole thread will be printed in the Village Voice or some other leftist publication, complete with smarmy comments, lies, and mockery of our grammar and spelling errors

And you'd win your bet.

[Southack]

"Even "funded" is not the same as distributed. It seemed that his claim was that the money wasn't getting spent. ... It is completely faulty logic to claim that "funding" equals distribution unless one proves otherwise."

The burden of proof is upon you, and it is upon Rick. I've made no claim. Rick has.

Between the two of you, only a single source has been posted to support any of your claims. That USA Today source says only that $2 Billion out of $15 Billion (over 5 years) was funded last year.

Thus, the only posted source so far...says nothing about a lesser amount being distributed.

Ergo, Rick's claim and your banter is unsupported by the only source that either of you has managed to post.

Rick says taht only $300 million was distributed.

Prove it.

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