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Ready to rumble? Village Voice Author, Rick Perlstein, Here to Debate the Freeper Horde
08/03/2004 | Rick Perlstein

Posted on 08/03/2004 12:09:31 PM PDT by dead

Opening Statement

Dear FRiends:

I once suffered two great frustrations in being a freelance political writer. First, the loneliness: you put an article out there, and you might as well have thrown it down a black hole for all the response you get. Second, the ghettoization: when you do get response, it would be from folks you agree with. Not fun for folks like me who reliish--no, crave and need--political argument.

Then came the Internet, the blogs--and: problem solved.

I have especially enjoyed having my articles in the Village Voice posted on Free Republic by "dead," and arguing about them here. The only frustration is that I never have enough time--and sometimes no time--to respond as the threads are going on. That is why I arranged for an entire afternoon--this afternoon--to argue on Free Republic. Check out my articles and have at me.

A little background: I am a proud leftist who specializes in writing about conservatives. I have always admired conservatives for their political idealism, acumen, stalwartness, and devotion. I have also admired some of their ideas--especially the commitment to distrusting grand social schemes, and the deep sense of the inherent flaws in human nature. (To my mind the best minds in the liberal tradition have encompassed these ideals, while still maintaining that robust social reform is still possible and desirable. My favorite example is the Protestant theologian Reinhold Niebuhr, author of the Serenity Prayer and a great liberal Democrat.)

Lately, however, I've become mad at the right, and have written about it with an anger not been present in my previous writings. It began with the ascension of George Bush, when I detected many conservatives beginning to care more about power than principles. The right began to seem less interesting to me--more whiny, more shallow--and, what's more, in what I saw as an uncritical devotion to President Bush, often in retreat from its best insights about human nature.

I made my strongest such claim in a Village Voice article two weeks ago in which I, after much thought, chose to say conservatism was "verging on becoming an un-American creed" for the widespread way conservatives are ignoring the lessons of James Madison's great insights in Federalist 51 that in America we are supposed to place our ultimate trust in laws, not men.

Finally, in what I see as the errors of the Iraq campaign, I recognize the worst aspects of arrogant left-wing utopianism: the idea that you can remake a whole society and region through sheer force of will. I think Iraq is a tragic disaster (though for the time being the country is probably better off than it was when Saddam was around--but only, I fear, for the time being).

I am also, by the way, a pretty strong critic of my own side, as can be seen in my latest Village Voice piece.

So: I'm yours for the day--until 7:10 pm CST, when I'm off to compete in my weekly trivia contest at the University of Chicago Pub. Until then: Are you ready to rumble?

Respectfully,
Rick Perlstein


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: cheese; cutandpaste; flake; flamingvantiy; fr; freerepublic; frinthenews; hatesamerica; ifeelpretty; mediabias; moose; nopartinggifts; notdebate; perlstein; pinko; poopstain; rickstillhasntshown; seeyalaterliberal; thanksforplaying; triviacontest; villagevoice
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To: HHFi
<> Huh? I was there, and Democratic officials ran from Michael Moore like he had scurvy. He had no official role. He did, however, sneak into Jimmy Carter's booth, if that's what you mean.
621 posted on 08/03/2004 3:41:47 PM PDT by Perlstein
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To: cake_crumb
"I confess, I've wondered that off and on myself."

Just compare 'The Emperor's New Clothes' with 'Chicken Little'.

622 posted on 08/03/2004 3:41:58 PM PDT by Tench_Coxe
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To: Perlstein

Again, debate with your original thoughts, not with articles written before.


623 posted on 08/03/2004 3:42:55 PM PDT by Indy Pendance
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To: KellyAdmirer


So, do you think that Teresa was thinking of what you wrote when she said that "un-American" stuff was going on (but then immediately denied saying it)? For that matter, do you think she has any idea who James Madison is, let alone Federalist 51?

Also, like some of your fellow Village Voice writers (I can give examples), do you too think that Kerry looks and brays like a horse? Regards.
----

Tell me about what Theresa said.

I don't really know any of the other Voice writers. I livein Chicago. And don't like people who stoop to making arguments in terms of personal appearance.


624 posted on 08/03/2004 3:43:24 PM PDT by Perlstein
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To: Perlstein

The criminal investigation, I forgot to add, is ongoing.

The independent investigation is what I was referring to. The Southern District-led criminal investigation continues.

Just a question for you to ponder. I know the answer but I want you to speculate. Why does this criminal investigation fall under the purview of James Comey of the NYC-based Southern District?

Berger is a lot of trouble.


625 posted on 08/03/2004 3:44:22 PM PDT by lavrenti (I'm not bad, just misunderstood.)
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To: Perlstein
I guess my question would be why would you formulate a question that implies those who don't believe in God don't deserve civil rights

Actually, the formula to my question is why a liberal assumes that the "good" of government by the "consent of the governed" is subordinate to this "good" of legalized infanticide, inflicted on our population at the least representative level of government. The only constant to this goal post is that it is constantly moving.

In Nevada, the community has voted to legalize prostitution. Would you describe prostitution as a "civil right" because the people of Nevada have not chosen to criminalize it? At what point, to the liberal mind, is the consent of the governed no longer desirable as a "good"?

If Roe V. Wade were overturned tomorrow, the worst that would happen (for the pro-death side) is that the people would finally be allowed to vote on the issue. So, does good become "evil" when the nonexistent "privacy" clause of the constitution is imperiled by the clearly defined responsibility of the states?

626 posted on 08/03/2004 3:44:31 PM PDT by Dutchgirl (The God who made us, made us free...)
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To: Perlstein

He said: "(Bombing an aspirin factory while Monica is testifying, which the owner of later won in court millions of dollars from US taxpayers to rebuild doesn't count.)"

you said: "the Sudan missile attacks"

Democrats have a field day 'questioning the timing' of things.

Do you find the timing of that attack suspicious?
Did you find that attack justified?
Did you agree with the CIA/Richard Clarke claims about the Sudan factory?

He said: "And, if Clinton knew Al Qaeda was such danger to the US, and clearly the most pressing threat facing us, why did his Administration not discuss Bin Laden or AQ a single time in any of the security briefings given to the incoming Bush admin?"

You said: Stuff which didnt answer the question.

Why did you evade the question? Cant you answer it directly *without* referring to what Republicans think? What do YOU think?


627 posted on 08/03/2004 3:45:23 PM PDT by WOSG (George W Bush - Right for our Times!)
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To: Perlstein

I agree with your observations regarding Moore at the DNC.

He's replaced Jackson as the Typhoid Mary of Democrat politics at the moment.


628 posted on 08/03/2004 3:45:43 PM PDT by lavrenti (I'm not bad, just misunderstood.)
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To: Southack

What a non-debate. It's a cut and paste fest.


629 posted on 08/03/2004 3:45:46 PM PDT by Indy Pendance
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To: Perlstein; Warrior Princess
Warrior princess, you shouldn't waste your time with punks!

That does it! I was wading through this exercise in futility, feeling like the odd animal in the zoo being stared at by the "humans" through the bars. All I could think was, "this guy is a true liberal. He is arrogant, condescending, hypocritical and oh so "correct" as he "gently" points out how misguided are we conservatives. Makes me want to throw up. So I get to this point in the posts and see this kind of advice to Warrior princess. The kid on the street is a "punk", one of the "little" people no doubt. Not educated you know, or he could not be persuaded by conservative ideas. Condescention. Disgusting. Enough already. I quit on this one.

630 posted on 08/03/2004 3:45:55 PM PDT by WVNan
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To: Perlstein

I take issue with part of your opening statement:


"I detected many conservatives beginning to care more about power than principles. The right began to seem less interesting to me--more whiny, more shallow--and, what's more, in what I saw as an uncritical devotion to President Bush, often in retreat from its best insights about human nature"


When did you take issue with all the Clintonistas that chanted in lock step that lying about sex was ok because it was about sex????????


631 posted on 08/03/2004 3:46:20 PM PDT by NYTexan (....Back to the Bunker!....)
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To: Nakatu X

Roger that ~ Nakatu X!


632 posted on 08/03/2004 3:46:24 PM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: Perlstein
"I don't watch H and C either. I think Ailes is a punk for picking the nerdiest looking liberal in the world to go against H. Clearly bias. ;-)"

NO, Colmes is not the nerdiest...this guy Kerry is along with being the most dangerous:


A couple of nerds and a turd

633 posted on 08/03/2004 3:46:33 PM PDT by eleni121 (Thank God fo John Ashcroft: Four more years!)
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To: WOSG
"Bush's 16 words were true, and Wilson's allegations were false."

According to the 9/11 Commission report, Wilson actually STRENGTHENED suspicions that Saddam was trying to get uranium. Wilson knowingly, maliciously manufactured a well mapped lie worthy of an amateur fiction writer for nothing more than the gain of personal power.

I know the administration has too much on it's plate to bother with a libel suit, but I'd like to see this whole thing finally come to an end.

634 posted on 08/03/2004 3:46:51 PM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions=Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: veronica
..as a Jew, I am especially appalled by Jewish leftists. These people are a danger to Israel, and to the Jewish faith in general, to say nothing of being dangerous to America...


635 posted on 08/03/2004 3:47:24 PM PDT by Byron_the_Aussie (http://www.theinterviewwithgod.com/popup2.html)
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To: Perlstein
Huh? I was there, and Democratic officials ran from Michael Moore like he had scurvy. He had no official role. He did, however, sneak into Jimmy Carter's booth, if that's what you mean.

Then the Democratic officials are morons. Scurvy is not a contagious disease. It is a condition caused by a lack of vitamin C in the system. And about the only thing Moore lacks in that vast system of his is a shred of intellectual honest...JFK

636 posted on 08/03/2004 3:47:25 PM PDT by BADROTOFINGER (Life sucks. Get a helmet.)
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To: lugsoul
"Then you know nothing of the facts. There was no order to "storm" any occupied position. None. It didn't happen."

Oh please.

"Clark also ordered British general Michael Jackson to storm Pristina airport"
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/sep2003/clar-s29.shtml

"Clark made another boo-boo. When he discovered that a unit of some 200 Russian peacekeepers from Bosnia was on the way to secure the Pristina airport, he ordered the British general, Michael Jackson, to use the British and French paratroopers to storm the airport. This would have caused the most frightening crisis with Russia since the Cold War end. The British general openly defied him and refused to obey the order: "I'm not going to start WWIII for you." Jackson got full support from the British Government, while Clark was brushed-off in Washington.
*Vojin Joksimovich, Ph.D., is the author of "Kosovo Crisis: A Study in Foreign Policy Mismanagement."

http://news.serbianunity.net/press/suc285.html

"In the summer of 1999, the Russian forces left their bases in BiH without any permission, and went toward Kosovo, entering the province before NATO. After they (Russians) occupied the Pristina Airport, NATO Supreme Commander, General Wesley Clark, ordered an attack against the Russians, but British General Jackson disobeyed this order, saying that it would start “World War III”. NATO enforced the isolation of the Russian forces at the airfield by preventing Russian planes from flying over Bulgaria, Romania and Hungary carrying Special Forces. NATO and Russia came to an agreement on this issue by putting Russian soldiers under NATO command. (pg 12/96) - H.O."
http://www.tfeagle.army.mil/tfeno/hardcopy.asp?date=04/13/03

5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

637 posted on 08/03/2004 3:47:39 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Perlstein
What was more intellectually dishonest: that vote, or the Bush admnistration's understanding that they're asking for less money than they'll really need for Iraq?

You did not answer my question. Did John Kerry show his true colors by voting FOR the war or AGAINST the funding?

By the way, Kerry's suggestion is that the troops will come home before the country is secure and in the hands of a capable Iraqi force (i.e., The French will do it.)

638 posted on 08/03/2004 3:49:27 PM PDT by Use It Or Lose It
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius


I have a few questions just in general. Need to get to know where you are coming from.
----
Great questions
-----

Do you believe that anyone can be a success from their own work in America? If not, is it only people from certain races, genders, or beliefs that need help?
-----
Social mobility has decreased profoundly in America in the last 30 years, and isn't even close to the best in the world any more. I think we can do better. This report from the Century Foundation is stunning on the subject:
http://www.tcf.org/4L/4LMain.asp?SubjectID=1&TopicID=1&ArticleID=456
------

Do you believe that in order for someone to gain a dollar someone had to lose a dollar?
------
No. But sometimes people gain dollars by having others lose dollars. Any economist will tell you that.
------

Do you believe that faith in a higher power denigrates a persons ability to think logically?
------
No
------

Do you believe in instinct?
------
I can't answer this one. I guess I do. Refine the question, please.
------

Do you believe in absolutes as they pertain to :science? :faith? :politics? :philosphy?
------
I won't satisfy you on this one. I'm prety much a philosophical pragmatist.
-------

Do you believe in the inate goodness of man?
------
No! Have you read my posts to this thread?
------

Do you believe in the law of nature (the strong survive at the expense of the weak)?
-----
Again, could you refine the question? I don't know what you mean. I do believe, with Isaiah Berlin, that often, "freedom for the wolf is death to the lamb."
-----

Thank you.


639 posted on 08/03/2004 3:50:34 PM PDT by Perlstein
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To: dead
I have been nice : ) as always and here is what I learned from this exercise...



It is hard to deprogram a Utopian and 40 percent of the country is still going to vote for the new JFK : )
640 posted on 08/03/2004 3:50:38 PM PDT by alisasny ("I will leave no hampster behind" John F'en Kerry : ))
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