Ready to rumble? Village Voice Author, Rick Perlstein, Here to Debate the Freeper Horde

08/03/2004 | Rick Perlstein

[dead]

Opening Statement

Dear FRiends:

I once suffered two great frustrations in being a freelance political writer. First, the loneliness: you put an article out there, and you might as well have thrown it down a black hole for all the response you get. Second, the ghettoization: when you do get response, it would be from folks you agree with. Not fun for folks like me who reliish--no, crave and need--political argument.

Then came the Internet, the blogs--and: problem solved.

I have especially enjoyed having my articles in the Village Voice posted on Free Republic by "dead," and arguing about them here. The only frustration is that I never have enough time--and sometimes no time--to respond as the threads are going on. That is why I arranged for an entire afternoon--this afternoon--to argue on Free Republic. Check out my articles and have at me.

A little background: I am a proud leftist who specializes in writing about conservatives. I have always admired conservatives for their political idealism, acumen, stalwartness, and devotion. I have also admired some of their ideas--especially the commitment to distrusting grand social schemes, and the deep sense of the inherent flaws in human nature. (To my mind the best minds in the liberal tradition have encompassed these ideals, while still maintaining that robust social reform is still possible and desirable. My favorite example is the Protestant theologian Reinhold Niebuhr, author of the Serenity Prayer and a great liberal Democrat.)

Lately, however, I've become mad at the right, and have written about it with an anger not been present in my previous writings. It began with the ascension of George Bush, when I detected many conservatives beginning to care more about power than principles. The right began to seem less interesting to me--more whiny, more shallow--and, what's more, in what I saw as an uncritical devotion to President Bush, often in retreat from its best insights about human nature.

I made my strongest such claim in a Village Voice article two weeks ago in which I, after much thought, chose to say conservatism was "verging on becoming an un-American creed" for the widespread way conservatives are ignoring the lessons of James Madison's great insights in Federalist 51 that in America we are supposed to place our ultimate trust in laws, not men.

Finally, in what I see as the errors of the Iraq campaign, I recognize the worst aspects of arrogant left-wing utopianism: the idea that you can remake a whole society and region through sheer force of will. I think Iraq is a tragic disaster (though for the time being the country is probably better off than it was when Saddam was around--but only, I fear, for the time being).

I am also, by the way, a pretty strong critic of my own side, as can be seen in my latest Village Voice piece.

So: I'm yours for the day--until 7:10 pm CST, when I'm off to compete in my weekly trivia contest at the University of Chicago Pub. Until then: Are you ready to rumble?

Respectfully,
Rick Perlstein

[norton]

"i often find the titles the Voice gives my articles, which I have no control over, idiotic."

Thanks, I'll look out for future posts.
Oh; I wanted to add
"Illegal immigration/failure to arrest and deport, unconscionable."

[Brad’s Gramma]

I was surprised to notice the depths of the hero worship

Stepping in here.....you MUST not look at this as hero worship!!! I know that I for one, am just flat out RELIEVED to not have to cringe each time the news comes on, having to RUSH to turn it off so my young grandson doesn't hear inappropriate things, as SO often happened when your man, Clinton was in office.

We're just PLEASED that ADULTS are in charge. I honestly don't know a single person on FR who WORSHIPS the man.

[Perlstein]

First the "ascension of George Bush" happened when he won the election as laid out in the constitution.  7 of the 9 Supreme Court Justices ruled that what the Democrats were trying to do in Florida was unconstitutional.  In effect, the Gore-bots were caught trying to steal the election through a 100% partisan Democrat Court in Florida and they got slapped down.  Ever since then they've been screaming about how Bush was "Selected, not elected."  I guess they don't support and defend the Constitution, then?
----
A misunderstanding. My use of the word "ascension" wasn't meant to question the legitimacy of Bush's election. Just a word to mean "matriculation," or whatever. That will have to be an argument for another time.

[Southack]

"He believes in some basic liberal principles that I believe in concerning economics: that corporations can't be trusted to regulate themselves, for example."

Have you spoken out against *lawyers* regulating themselves (e.g. federal and state BAR Associations)?

5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

[Ben Bolt]

You keep citing The Federalist . You claim to be a Conservative . Why would you be associated with The Village Voice for goodness sakes ?
Frankly I find it odd to say the least .

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

OK, Just ONE question.
Do you really believe a traitor like Hanoi Kerry should be Commander in Chief?

Just as I thought.
NO ANSWER
Come back when you can face reality.

[Perlstein]

As to conservatives "beginning to care more about power than principles," this is classic Saul Alinsky agitprop.  Accuse your enemies of doing what you are doing, loudly and often, all reality to the contrary.  The current Democrats, dating back to 1992 at least, have abandoned all principle in the naked quest for power, since it is theirs "by right" (not divine right, that wouldn't be PC).  The left cares about power and nothing but.  They will sell any snake oil, embrace any lie, commit any crime, because in their mind they serve a "higher truth."  They know "what's good for us."  Look out, they want to enslave us for our own good!
-------
This is pretty wild. Didn't Saul Alinsky die in the '70s? I don't know much about him. As for the rest of this charge, I really need something more specific. Sorry.

[BSunday]

I would ordinarily be tempted to masquerade as a lib at the convention and make a bunch of trouble, look like a loser, and get arrested or something, but being a responsible conservative, I have a job and family to support. Oh yeah, the navy would probably get pretty mad at me too.

[45Auto]

Well, we can debate about the relative merits of President Bush v. John Kerry; however, this would be considered a 'short term' discussion. However, if you are a real liberal, then you must have embraced the idea that communism would still work if it was done right,because the adoption of a communist state is the end game of all leftist thinking. If so, then you might want to consult history before marching headlong into the abyss; or, if you would prefer, there are several ongoing, "living laboratories" of communism in the world today that might be enlightening: North Korea, Cuba or, my favorite, Zimbabwe. So, which of these "models" would you prefer to install in the United States?

[cake_crumb]

"Well, there was the New Year's arrests, the Sudan missile attacks..."

Shame Clinton didn't take Saudi and Sudan up on the offer of Binny on a platter.

Note: this post is rhetorical.

[EDINVA]

I get a little lost when the referenced topic is to "Republicans/conservatives" in a FR discussion, but when the questions are specific, they relate to the Republican/Democrat leadership in the House (or Senate). Is the discussion about grassroots Republicans/Democrats or the parties' leaders?

As to conservatives abandoning principle in their support of President Bush ... it's hard to find a position he's taken, ie., education and immigration, where he's not been criticized by FReepers and other grassroots Republicans. However, from a conservative perspective, the alternate is several degrees beyond acceptable. WOuld President Bush govern differently with a Senate composed of 60+ Republicans? Sure! However, that is not the hand he was dealt .. he cannot nominate his conservative preferences to the federal bench and anticipate their being approved, thanks to the new Daschle Rules on Filibuster and Cloture. Most FReepers understand that. Therefore, I don't think they are sacrificing their principles in supporting President Bush. Conservatives in the main understand we're better taking two steps forward rather than ten backwards.

[Kackikat]

I happen to know the definition of "the rule of law", do you?? It has none. It is a term perpetuated in the writings of the left political books and articles over the past quarter of a century to focus power on the courts. It was started to undermine the three branches of government and add legitimization to the Madison vs. Marboro concept that the Supreme Court is the only institution who can intepret the constitution. The term "rule of law" does not have a definition; it is fraudulent term with no real meaning. It can be used to confuse, manipulate and confer an invisible power not earned to the lawyers, courts and other legal bodies creating an imbalance in power that did not exist prior to using the term.

[StarCMC]

Yeah BG, you're right. Now if we could get rid of the Michael Jackson and Kobe Bryant stories we' be getting somewhere...

And isn't it refreshing that with the caliber of people Pres. Bush has working in the White House now, no memo was needed to remind the ladies...and I use the term VERY loosely...to wear panties to work??

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

FYI

I was there the same time Hanoi Kerry was.
I was there Oct'68-Apr'69 as a GMG 3
I served on the destroyer USS Corry DD-817
which supplied PCF's and PBR's
and gave gunfire support in North AND South Viet Nam.
My ship may have even supplied Hanoi Kerry's boat.
I VOW to the 58,229 + names on The Wall who never came home
"I will do everything I LEGALLY can
to keep this traitor from being elected."
Hanoi Kerry MUST NOT win on Nov 2 2004

[King Prout]

there is some truth to what you say.

the best lies and strongest delusions are those based most firmly on truth.

in other words, Mr. Perlstein: I believe you have some basic grasp of some real issues, but the picture you spin from the truths you grasp is one I do not agree with or recognise as reflecting reality.

though we do have some rather idolatrous bushbots here, the majority of those with whom I deal approve of GW Bush with some reservations and disagreements in detail.
Most of us hold these disagreements quietly, especially now during both war and an election cycle.

The reason? Simple: we believe Dubya is significantly better than the creature your team is fielding, and we shall do what we must to make certain your boy does not win.

If it seems to you that we have grown too fond of power, look to the antics of your side of the aisle - the corruption they have spread throughout government and society has gone on too long, and grown too strong, for us to be able to afford to take a high road in this struggle.

We MUST have the reins of power for at least one more term of office in order to undo as much of the damage leftists have done to this republic as is within our abilities.

One side note, son: Everything is "only for the time being".

[alisasny]

With all due respect to you 68-69: Perstein is only up to answering posts in the 70s from hours ago..he is answering nearly every post in order even if we dont agree with his answers..he has not even gotten to the retorts, therefore I humbly believe he will answer your posts in due time so please don't think he is ignoring you : )


Damn, why do I have to be such a diplomat : )

[Feiny]

"The hell with that - I’ll kiss him on the mouth."

You do what you have to....but I won't kiss you afterwards!

[BSunday]

Which would also lead to a logical dilemma anyway. If communisim could theoretically work, then Reagan gets all the credit for defeating it. If it could never work anyway, then the liberal left have really no purpose in life, which is how their campaign looks now, by the way.

[valkyrieanne]

Oops - ignore the kudo in #434 - I confused you with Ron Perlman. My bad.

After reading through this thread, I'll tell you where I'm coming from.

I consider myself conservative, but there are many points with which I diverge from President Bush.

I support our troops - but I don't support the continuing Iraq occupation.

It was a great mistake to impose massive federal control on local education.

The GOP focuses too much on the very wealthy and on corporations, and not on the middle and lower classes.

So why am I voting for Bush? First and foremost, because of abortion. The right to life is fundamental; no other rights can be experienced without it.

Second, I hate the creeping influence of the federal government (like No Child Left Behind), and stealthy tax increases (like the alternative minimum tax.) IMO these will become *worse* under Kerry.

While Bush is terrible on immigration, any proposals to Congress made by Kerry will be far worse.

As I said, I don't like the Iraqi occupation - I think we invaded the wrong country, actually (we should have taken that left turn at Saudi Arabia.) However - my understanding is that Kerry would like to turn the Iraq situation over to the UN. Nothing should be turned over to the UN. Even the radical Iraqis don't deserve the UN.

Comments?

[Miss Marple]

Reply speed has improved since I posted that. Look at the first 100 replies, and note how little he said. THAT is what I was pointing out.