REPUBLICANS PLAN PUSH FOR ELIMINATION OF IRS

A domestic centerpiece of the Bush/GOP agenda for a second Bush term is getting rid of the Internal Revenue Service, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

The Speaker of the House will push for replacing the nation's current tax system with a national sales tax or a value added tax, Hill sources tell DRUDGE.

"People ask me if I’m really calling for the elimination of the IRS, and I say I think that’s a great thing to do for future generations of Americans," Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert explains in his new book, to be released on Wednesday.

"Pushing reform legislation will be difficult. Change of any sort seldom comes easy. But these changes are critical to our economic vitality and our economic security abroad," Hastert declares in SPEAKER: LESSONS FROM FORTY YEARS IN COACHING AND POLITICS.

"“If you own property, stock, or, say, one hundred acres of farmland and tax time is approaching, you don’t want to make a mistake, so you’re almost obliged to go to a certified public accountant, tax preparer, or tax attorney to help you file a correct return. That costs a lot of money. Now multiply the amount you have to pay by the total number of people who are in the same boat. You can’t. No one can because precise numbers don’t exist. But we can stipulate that we’re talking about a huge amount. Now consider that a flat tax, national sales tax, or VAT would not only eliminate the need to do this, it could also eliminate the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) itself and make the process of paying taxes much easier."

"By adopting a VAT, sales tax, or some other alternative, we could begin to change productivity. If you can do that, you can change gross national product and start growing the economy. You could double the economy over the next fifteen years. All of a sudden, the problem of what future generations owe in Social Security and Medicare won’t be so daunting anymore. The answer is to grow the economy, and the key to doing that is making sure we have a tax system that attracts capital and builds incentives to keep it here instead of forcing it out to other nations."

My husband, who is a tax accountant has been preaching National Sales Tax as the only solution for years. I read him this story and he freaked. What will he do for a living? Said he would have to vote for Kerry (as a first response). Now, we have to ask ourselves, how many CPAs etc. do we have that might change their vote over this?

Wow, this is really difficult. I mean, how am I going to reply to this, without using any obscenities?

What I'm getting at is, how does one describe obscenity without using obscenity?

Why don't you simply ask him if there was a cure for cancer, should it be suppressed, lest the doctors, clinics, and research organizations be forced to go work for a living?

Or, if there was a sudden drop in violent crime -- to, let's say, -zero-, should the government establish "crime forces" in the form of government sponsored criminals, and "school-to-jail" programs to ensure a new generation of thugs and street criminals, because otherwise, we'd be putting all those cops, judges, lawyers, and prison guards out of work?

Or how about Prohibition? Look at all the people that took a financial hit when that law was revoked! Everyone from Al Capone to Eliot Ness took a beating!

I could go on, but hopefully you've got the idea by now.

Point by point - Capital gains tax on business is what, about 20% of the gain? Sales tax paid will be 23% of entire value when eventually used to purchase something. Worse off.

Second, I know that 12k allows quite a bit, but still for small businesses, the cost of operating a 401(k) is enough so that many owners never opened them in the first place, so the money is under the mattress. Even if they did have the 401(k), it is still capped at 12k. I thought conservatives didn't have a screw the rich mentality. It isn't fair to double tax just because it is over a 12k annual limit. The death tax is a valid issue, and the NRST fixing this is great, but it can be fixed without an NRST, so this really isn't a valid argument.

Roth IRA - You are correct and I only brought it up because you mentioned IRAs. However, 23% of 17k is still around $4k, which is not chump change even for the poorer folks. But I'm willing to move on, because this is minor compared to the other factors.

With regards to Municipal Bonds - You proved my point for me when you argued correctly that rates will go up. When rates go up, owners lose money. This is why people who own municipal bonds will not support the NRST.

A second point on municipal bonds, relating to the subsidization. You are correct, they are subsidized, but it is not the investor that is reaping the great savings, it is the municipality, by being able to borrow for a lower rate. You argument is basically that there is a bubble, which is correct, BUT the response to the bubble hurts those that weren't gaining the benefit of the subsidization, the investor.

With regard to the capital gains on the CDs, let's look at a concrete example, because this is a similar point to that made before. Let's say you own $1 million in CDs. During accumulation of this wealth, let's say $400k in income tax was paid (this is reasonable). Over five years, lets say the $1m turns into $1.2 million, a gain of $200k.

Current system - You pay capital gains of 20% on $200k, or $40k. Final wealth available for spending $1.16 million. Total taxes paid: $440k.

NRST - You pay no tax on gain of $200k. Wealth $1.2 million. But you now pay 23 percent tax on purchases. Let's say its just 20 percent. You can purchase $1 million worth of goods. You are $160k worse off. Total taxes paid: $600k. This is the double tax.

Finally, you are preaching to the choir on the other double taxation. The death tax and the double taxation on dividinds get me so angry, I froth at the mouth like a rabid dog. But those don't justify the double taxation due to the transition to NRST. If your argument is that we are better because the new system eliminates the double taxation on dividends and the death tax even though it imposes a transitional double tax - you are probably correct, but this doesn't justify the new double tax.

Oh, I also agree with you on the taxation scam on SS. Absolutely rediculous. Again, eliminating this is good, and maybe in addition is a stronger argument for moving to the NRST, all I am saying is the following:

Over all, we will be better off with the NRST. Most people will benefit, but SOME people will NOT and will actually be WORSE off. Are you honestly trying to argue that in switching to the NRST, EVERYONE will be better off and NOONE will be unfairly double taxed??? I am NOT arguing that it isn't necessarily worth it, I AM arguing that some people will be paying extra, and they KNOW this, and they will NOT support the NRST - whether it is enough to stop passage, I don't know, but it ABSOLUTELY exists.

You gotta remember that 23% is only the marginal rate. Every American will recieve a rebate for taxes paid up to the poverty line. Let's say it's a retired couple. For a couple in 2004, it would be $18,620; that means that the couple would recieve enough taxes, $4,283, to pay enough taxes up to the poverty line. So, for this couple to pay at least 20% in taxes, they would have to spend AT LEAST $145,000 a year. ($145,000 - $18,620 = $126,380; $126,380 x .23 = $29,067.40; $29,067.40/$145,000 = 20.05%). Keep in mind that assumes ALL of their income is spent on taxable items (not used goods including a home, or savings), and it also assumes that the price of goods doesn't drop.

I know very few seniors who spend $145,000 a year.

I don't blame you for not looking at the marginal rate by not taking into account the "prebate" (Family Consumption Allowance). When I first came across the FairTax, I tohught the same thing. I'll give you a formula to figure out true tax rates:

First, the prebate is $9,310 for adults and $3,180 for children per year.

Use the following rules for the formula:

Income = I
Rebate = R
Tax Rate = T
Price Reduction (new price/old price) = P
Consumption Rate (% of income spent on taxable goods) = C

So,

(CTRIP)/I = Marginal Tax Rate

Glad to have you aboard on the FairTax.

To those who didn't know CHIEF negotiator, this is from his Profile page.

"You'll notice that most of my links on the left deal with our abusive, intrusive, incomprehensible income tax system, and their Gestapo collection agents, the IRS.

A progressive/graduated income tax is the second plank in Karl Marx Communist Manifesto! So any sane thinking American citizen should wonder What was the original intent of the income tax? [see link]

As a result of my intensive study of various tax plans, I have determined that the only way to accomplish the original intent of our Founding Fathers is to abide by Article 1 Section 8 of our Constitution:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"
A National Retail Sales Tax is an "excise" tax that is "uniform". There are two NRST bills before congress, HR2001 and HR2525. My preference is HR2525 that funds Social Security and Medicare from the FairTax revenue, rather than paychecks as HR2001 does.

In the fall of 1998, FReepers pigdog, Taxman and myself organized the FairTax FReeper Cyber Warriors to contact the media and Congress about this better method in which to tax ourselves. Our membership now totals over 500 concerned citizens! Americans for Fair Taxation support HR2525. Most of your questions about the FairTax are answered at Frequently Asked Questions and Research and Analysis.

Why would any politician demand that we continue to report our income to the Gestapo IRS - face penalties, interest, audits, liens, searches, seizures, garnishment of wages and even PRISON, when there is a better method to fund government?
If American citizens do not petition government about the major advantages of the FairTax, expect another 88 years of "tinkering with the taxcode".
If you are interested in becoming a FairTax FReeper Cyber Warrior, just send me a FReep-mail with your real email address with a note, "I want to be a Cyber Warrior". I will forward the list to pigdog who will send you the rules and regs, and a list of our lastest email "targets". We will not provide anyone a list of Cyber Warriors!

:-? Peace(pipe)
-- CHIEF negotiator
"Nothing is so powerful as an idea whose time has come."

-- Victor HugoYou'll notice that most of my links on the left deal with our abusive, intrusive, incomprehensible income tax system, and their Gestapo collection agents, the IRS.

A progressive/graduated income tax is the second plank in Karl Marx Communist Manifesto! So any sane thinking American citizen should wonder What was the original intent of the income tax? [see link]

As a result of my intensive study of various tax plans, I have determined that the only way to accomplish the original intent of our Founding Fathers is to abide by Article 1 Section 8 of our Constitution:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"
A National Retail Sales Tax is an "excise" tax that is "uniform". There are two NRST bills before congress, HR2001 and HR2525. My preference is HR2525 that funds Social Security and Medicare from the FairTax revenue, rather than paychecks as HR2001 does.

In the fall of 1998, FReepers pigdog, Taxman and myself organized the FairTax FReeper Cyber Warriors to contact the media and Congress about this better method in which to tax ourselves. Our membership now totals over 500 concerned citizens! Americans for Fair Taxation support HR2525. Most of your questions about the FairTax are answered at Frequently Asked Questions and Research and Analysis.

Why would any politician demand that we continue to report our income to the Gestapo IRS - face penalties, interest, audits, liens, searches, seizures, garnishment of wages and even PRISON, when there is a better method to fund government?
If American citizens do not petition government about the major advantages of the FairTax, expect another 88 years of "tinkering with the taxcode".
If you are interested in becoming a FairTax FReeper Cyber Warrior, just send me a FReep-mail with your real email address with a note, "I want to be a Cyber Warrior". I will forward the list to pigdog who will send you the rules and regs, and a list of our lastest email "targets". We will not provide anyone a list of Cyber Warriors!

:-? Peace(pipe)
-- CHIEF negotiator
"Nothing is so powerful as an idea whose time has come."

-- Victor Hugo"

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