Stay safe ........
Posted on 07/30/2004 8:25:47 PM PDT by joesnuffy
7-29-04 TYRANNY UPDATE!
Oshkosh police say 'Sorry' for trampling citizens' rights in door-to-door gun confiscations.
Oshkosh, Wis. -- In what appears to be an admission of wrong-doing by the Oshkosh Police Department, Fox 11 WLUK (Green Bay) has reported that area resident Terry Wesner was offered an apology by the department.
Police evacuated citizens from their homes within a quarantined area near Smith Elementary School Saturday night (July 17, 2004) to conduct a broad gun sweep of the neighborhood following the shooting of Oshkosh police officer Nate Gallagher.
Residents reported returning home from area shelters -- where they were herded by police -- to find their guns gone.
Others watched in awe as police took their firearms after giving police consent to search. Some were told by police their firearms would be subjected to ballistics tests, and would be returned.
"However, the bullet that hit officer Gallagher was not found," said Corey Graff, executive director of Wisconsin Gun Owners Inc. "So how can police conduct ballistics tests if there's no bullet with which to match the results? It defies logic."
Graff said the biggest issue is what he calls the department's "Guilty-until-proven-innocent" posture towards citizens.
In what appears to be a blatant knee jerk abuse of police power, the department unleashed the dogs — literally — when the Special Weapons and Tactics Unit (SWAT) showed up with its K-9 Unit to begin house-to-house searches.
According to media reports, the suspect fled on foot into the neighborhood, and has not been apprehended.
Warrants for searches were issued for at least two homes, (perhaps more) but homeowners in the area reported having all their firearms taken by police.
Some witnesses said the whole neighborhood was evacuated by force and citizens were being told – not asked, but told – to hand over their guns. Some weren’t even asked.
"That’s what makes me so mad," said resident Terry Wesner in an Oshkosh Northwestern report (July 20, 2004). "They had no reason [to remove firearms] without a warrant. . .I didn’t know they removed anything until my buddy, who’s staying with me, noticed they were missing. I thought you had to have a warrant to take someone’s guns." [Emphasis Added]
In a subsequent report, another resident, who worked the late night weekend shift, reported he came home to find a scene that looked like his home had been burglarized — he said personal belongings were thrown about — and his gun safe was empty.
"They didn’t even leave a note, telling me what was going on," the man said on camera.
An elderly woman said she woke up to find police — who were reported to be dressed in black, quasi-military gear — conducting a search in her home in the early morning hours.
"Did the fact that this poor senior citizen happened to live in the immediate area of the crime warrant "Reasonable Suspicion" or "Probable Cause" that she could have committed this heinous act?" asked Graff.
"Is Grandma taking pot shots out her kitchen window? Is she hiding something in the cookie jar?" He said.
In the same Oshkosh Northwestern report (July 20, 2004) Oshkosh Police Captain Jay Puestohl was reported to have, "declined to say on what grounds officers had the right to remove the firearms…"
"If officers were acting honorably and respecting property owners' rights, why not say so? Why not be upfront? Why the secrecy?" Graff said.
One resident in the neighborhood may have found himself the subject of the investigation simply by refusing to consent to a search (entirely within his rights) according to the news report.
The Oshkosh Northwestern story quoted one neighbor — who suspected homeowners who exercised their right to refuse consent to the heavy-handed searches, were presumed guilty by police — as saying:
". . .[T]hey’ve been downright rude to us. . .You don’t treat so-called civilians this way." [Emphasis Added]
The news story goes on to say that Captain Puestohl ". . .declined to say whether officers pursued the warrant because the residents refused a consent search."
This hysteria-driven Oshkosh neighborhood gun grab could establish a nightmarish precedent for a wide-open abuse of police power to be unleashed upon Badger State gun owners said WGO.
The silence from other gun rights groups on this issue is deafening.
"The institutional gun lobby is just as scared as the poor people in that Oshkosh neighborhood," Graff said. "They might be thinking, 'If I speak out, will my guns be next?'"
Wesner, one of the brave gun owners to speak out against the rash of gun confiscations that occurred after the shooting, said police confiscated his guns after entering his home without a search warrant.
He reported in a Thursday, July 22 television interview with WLUK-FOX 11, "They [the police] are not going to come in my home again [without a warrant]."
That same report stated that the police "acknowledged a lack of proper procedure [in not obtaining a warrant]."
Wisconsin Gun Owners Inc. said the most effective response for gun owners is to join and contribute to the organization's bold, no-compromise educational crusade. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
7-17-2004
TYRANNY ALERT!
OSHKOSH POLICE CONDUCT DOOR TO DOOR GUN CONFISCATIONS
Shooting of Oshkosh police officer results in knee jerk neighborhood gun grab
Oshkosh, Wis. -- Following the shooting of an Oshkosh police officer Saturday night, area residents were forced from their homes, their lawful firearms being confiscated by police.
The Oshkosh Police Department's Special Weapons and Tactics Unit responded to the area, with a K-9 police dog in pursuit of the perpetrator who was reported to have fled on foot.
Citizens' guns were seized through searches of area homes. The police promised to return the firearms after forensic tests proved they were not involved in the crime. The injured officer's name was withheld, but media reports indicate his condition is not life-threatening.
"The message is: Hand over your guns, now!" said Corey Graff, executive director of Wisconsin Gun Owners Inc. "This is a blatant case of guilty-until-proven-innocent and an abuse of police power."
Still, residents in the area are furious about the home invasions by police and what they see as theft of their property. Although early reports are unclear, they indicate a search warrant was issued for two homes, yet additional home owners also had firearms confiscated.
"We want the perpetrator of this crime caught and brought to justice just like everyone else," said Graff. "But that doesn't mean the police should trample citizens' 4th amendment protections, steal lawful private property and enter the home without reasonable suspicion or warrant."
One homeowner in the area said his guns were taken by police, guns that hadn't left his gun safe since last hunting season. Another victim of the police searches -- an elderly women -- reported waking up to officers' searching her home in the early morning hours.
The Oshkosh Northwestern reported, "Residents were not being allowed to return to their homes by press time."
Someone call John Edwards, quick! I smell a class action law suit.
This is outrageous! That Police Chief needs to loose his job, and maybe do time.
Nightmare this is. Put half those gunss at another secure,hidden location.
This is where we are headed. I know several who say they will only surrender guns one bullet at a time.
Molon Labe
Look here.
FMCDH(BITS)
Too bad we have so many lawyers eager to sue companies that provide a lawful service and so few eager to sue when the government gets out of control.
With any luck, there will be several unemployed police officers and many more wealth oshkosh residents soon.
Yikes. They really over reacted here. I'm sure part of the problem is these guys are frankly not used to getting shot at. I've worked at the local hospital in Oshkosh for 8 years and have never seen any OFD for a GSW or even heard of anyone of them shot at.
Interestingly enough Wisconsin has a right to bear arms clause in the State constitution. Someone is gonna get nailed for this.
"Sorry" ain't good enough!
Did it say anything about RETURNING THE GUNS TO THE RIGHTFUL OWNERS?
What was the guy shot with? A hand gun or rifle? It doesn't take much to figure out which one. If its a hand gun, why confiscate rifles? Oh stupid me.
Live Free or Die
If you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear.
It's for the children.
Herr Captain Puestohl; now that sounds like a nice German name...
If this is true,the idiots are guilty of Civil Rights violations and armed robbery,at the very least.
I lived in Oshkosh as well..attended UW Zero...My X did her clinicals at Mercy....
We use to live close to where this happend..
My current wife and I were discussing moving back just the other day....not any more...
No Gun Registration....you can bet every gun has just been registered with the Oshkosh PD
info readily shared with any other data base that would like it...
I used to have a couple of Vietnam Vet buddies on the PD...
I find it difficult to believe that these officers went along with this...makes one wonder how far they would go if given orders by some higher authority...
Guess they were 'just following orders'
Doyle and Lautenslager of course are digging this....they gotta love it....its their dream....
Now lets see what Mr. Gregg Underheim will do or say....
Wonder how they got the gun safes open so quickly....
Or if they will pay for ransacking...
Or if any thefts were committed...after all the officers involved dont seem to have much regard for
The Rule of Law....Their Chief sure doesnt seem to...
imo
What was the guy shot with? A hand gun or rifle? It doesn't take much to figure out which one. If its a hand gun, why confiscate rifles? Oh stupid me.
Storm-trooper style raids are not about "finding evidence", they are about evoking FEAR.
Someone made the command decision to establish in the "civilian" mind the realization that Men in Uniform are to be feared.
During WWII the Germans did similar things in their occupied lands when one of their soldiers was shot, i.e., they'd round everyone up, search the houses, etc.
The people in Oshkosh should be happy the police were satisfied to stop with merely searching, rather than emulating the rest of the German routine, i.e., shooting ten townsfolk for every soldier taken.
Good grief, what madness.
History, what a bitch.
They never found a bullet from what I understand must have passed through the victim
So a ballistics check was Imposible...
And confiscating firearms was a angry impotent rage sort of thing to do...
Cops putting civilians in their proper palce sort of stuff
Now if you or I or any non cop citizen got shot.....do you think they would do this to find the shooter?.....
IMO
Stay safe ........
I find it difficult to believe that these officers went along with this...makes one wonder how far they would go if given orders by some higher authority...
Guess they were 'just following orders'
Doyle and Lautenslager of course are digging this....they gotta love it....its their dream....
Now lets see what Mr. Gregg Underheim will do or say....
Wonder how they got the gun safes open so quickly....
Or if they will pay for ransacking...
I'm probably not the first to think this -- and I certainly won't be the last -- but there's one thought running through my mind right now.
That thought is summed up in one word: Precedent.
This outrage will be taken defended with incredible resources -- if anyone tries to mount a challenge to it -- because if they can make it stand, it will establish precedent for things that the state would love to make "the law of the land" across this country.
One day, those bullies are going to do this to the "wrong person".
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