"May 18,1971"--(Evil Exists)

July 18,2004 | redrock

[Katy Deacon]

tet68 and other veterans on this thread :

I'm a brand new freeper and I registered after years of lurking specifically to learn from you all on this thread. Thanks and endless respect to you all from a life-long civilian who lives safely in a rich and blessed country in part due to your service.

I've recently had some debate with a veteran (US Army 1959-1962, one tour in Germany) about the leadership that veterans provide to the rest of us. I look up to veterans and believe they represent the best of virtues, including truth. I think veterans define patriotism and what America stands for. At the same time I think the Democrat party pretty much represents evil these days. My veteran friend tells me that he served so that everyone could make up their own minds, and he has a hard time choosing between the two parties. Frankly I find that hard to understand because I do see American politics today in good/evil terms.

Could you all do me the honor and great favor of sharing how your experiences as veterans influence your thinking about politics today? You've seen evil that most of us can't begin to imagine, and you've literally done the "standing" to define what this country stands for. My experience is limited to civilian life here in the US. I really think the Democrats are evil, but I know that some veterans are Democrats, and I certainly don't have the experience and time in grade they have in serving the country.

How can I square those things up? Am I wrong about American politics being good versus evil today? If I'm right, how do I show proper gratitude and respect to a veteran who supports an evil political party?

Thanks again to you all for the security you've provided to me and my family, and for any insight or further lessons in patriotism you might be able to add in this thread.

[Chieftain]

I really believe that the survival of this nation as we know it is riding on this election.

You said it all.

[x1stcav]

To John Kerry and all the other Traitors:
Gee, I don't know what happened.
When I left we were winning.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

Welcome to Free Republic

[secretagent]

FYI

[wasnova]

The sad truth is that Kerry hasn't told any lies about his Vietnam experiences that I've heard.

That doesn't mean that "We" were bad and "They" were good. It's simply that some in the U.S. Military behaved in illegal, immoral, disgusting, etc. ways.

To deny that is absurd.

Some went too far in their determination to win at any cost. I don't hate those that did - but I can't say it's excusable either. It was a very long and miserable war.

If you don't believe Kerry (or me) - (which I can understand) simply do a little serious research of the Press reports of the day. There's lots and lots of pictures of this stuff (which weren't easy to fake back then).

Would anyone deny that the use of .50 cal's for perimeter defense was pretty standard?

[Common Tator]

I am older than you. I went in the Army after Korea and before Viet Nam.

Thank you for your service. It was somewhere in the late 70's that I met a recently retired Bird Colonel who had served in late WWII and both Korea and Nam. My civilian living was made in radio and I had been conditioned by ABC news and the AP. I believed the stuff about the guys that served in Nam.

I once made a slightly disparaging remark about the enlisted men who served in Nam compared to WWII and Korea.

I thought for a second I was going to have to defend my honor with my fists. He went over case after case of above and beyond the call of duty perforances by the Men who served in Nam.

I have always remembered that a man who had commanded troops in the WWI, Korea and Nam, felt the best quality of troops served in Nam.

He said the ones that avoided the draft and protested were garbage.. but the men who served in Nam were absolutely the best.

I have never forgotten his heated and forceful remarks. It was one of my first clues about how biased and agenda driven the main stream media is.

Again I thank you for your service. Men like Kerry make me sick. Men like you make me proud of my Nation.

[fly_so_free]

Oddly enough, the subject of Viet Nam came up in church today. A missionary priest who worked there gave the Homily (an explanation given after the Bible readings, during the Mass). He talked about Communism. He said it is difficult to get anything done because the government watches everyone .

He said that we wouldn't believe how crazy things are there. He said "You don't know how good you have it here. You live better than anywhere else in the world. No one in the world lives like you do. You know that don't you? Yes, you know that."

Then he read a letter from one of the Nuns who worked there. He talked about a Leper Colony that he ministered to. ( they can't get medicine because of the wonderful, benevolent, Communist government.) He said that since the Commies took over, 90% of the population still lives in poverty ,(in spite of their promises to improve life ) He said the "party" controls everything: schools , Churches, they watch everyone. If you say anything against the government, they throw you in prison. Then he asked "Do you have any idea what that is like?"

I want to be clear- when he was asking if we knew how good we had it, it wasn't a "blame America" tone. He was trying to wake people up about how blessed we are to live here. It was a great presentation.

But the sad part is that when he asked if we knew how good we had it, I thought- Do we know? And then I thought about my Kerry- supporting fellow-Catholic neighbors , and Michael Moore, and all the people who have seen his movie, and Jimmy Carter and Hollywood, and their expressed love for Fidel Castro, and Hillary's Viet Nam trip, and Soros and the rest of the multi-zillionaires, and their connections to Move On . Org, and it's ties to the Communist Party. I wonder if we know how good we have it? Or , will we throw it all away?

We need to pray for our country, and president Bush, that's the only way we will have victory. This is not going to be an easy campaign. The pubbies are dealing with unprecedented-in-our-history propaganda. Pray.

[Defender2]

Bumping your's to the Top, redrock!!!!

[BykrBayb]

I was running barefoot through the cornfield at the time, and knew nothing of the horrors of war. I still only know what I've been told. I don't know what it feels like to experience war first-hand, and God willing, I never will. It's by the grace of God, and soldiers like you, that I've been able to go through life without knowing those pains. I've been very well protected. Thank you.

[ALOHA RONNIE]

.

JOHN KERRY = Enemy of Vietnam Vets

http://www.TheAlamoFILM.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1320


as opposed to:


MEL's -PASSION- was sparked by -WE WERE SOLDIERS-

http://www.TheAlamoFILM.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=39081

.

[weegee]

Pacifica Radio had in their archives some of Kerry's testimony. What made it more remarkable was some of his most graphic claims were EDITED OUT of NBC's(?) own archive footage of the testimony.

Reportedly it has aired on Amy Goodman's "All Things Considered". I do not know if their position was that "these things happened and were suppressed" or that "Kerry lied and his most extreme lies were suppressed". John Kerry himself has recanted and said that they were the words of an angry young man.

[wasnova]

The most famous Sniper kill of the war was made by Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock from Hill 555 (just west of DaNang) with a scoped .50 cal. It's famous because of the distance - which I think was over 2300 yards.

And when Kerry says that the use of .50 cal's against personnel is prohibited by the Geneva Conventions he is correct.

[MeekOneGOP]

[devolve]

"Yes I committed the same kind of atrocities......"




.50 Caliber Kerry is 87% AWOL in the Senate! /b>

[PhilDragoo]

[ex 98C MI Dude]

I was but knee high to a grasshopper when the last bird took off from Saigon, but even then I knew what had happened wasn't good. As the years went on and I learned about Vietnam, and what our men went through, the more convinced I became that it WAS the good fight, just like WW II.

We went there not for material gain, or land, or colonization. We went there to keep other men free. Those men (and more than a few women)who fought there and came home to an ungrateful nation had every reason to be bitter, as demonstrations mounted and foul epithets were hurled at them. But in the main they were not bitter. They went home and took up jobs, started families, and made this nation better.

Then there were the ones like Kerry. Forever embittered, they undertook the mission to bring the US down. They believed that fighting 'glorious' communism was wrong, and our nation had to pay for it. And now that SOB wants to be our President?! I say him nay, and I will make my voice heard on 2 Nov 04!

Thanks for your service, gents. You set the standard.

[redrock]

"And when Kerry says that the use of .50 cal's against personnel is prohibited by the Geneva Conventions he is correct."

Could you point out where the Conventions actually say this??? I'm trying to find it.....perhaps a URL???

Thanks,

redrock

[AndrewC]

And when Kerry says that the use of .50 cal's against personnel is prohibited by the Geneva Conventions he is correct.

Here's your chance to back up that statement with a source.

M2 .50 Caliber [12.7mm] Machine Gun

This gun may be mounted on ground mounts and most vehicles as an anti-personnel and anti-aircraft weapon. Associated components are the M63 antiaircraft mount and the M3 tripod mount. The M2 .50 Cal. flexible version is used as a ground gun on the M3 tripod mount or various Naval mounts. The M2 .50 Cal., M48 turret type, fixed type, and soft mount are installed on mounts of several different types of combat vehicles and ships. The weapon provides automatic weapon suppressive fire for offensive and defensive purposes. This weapon can be used effectively against personnel, light armored vehicles; low, slow flying aircraft; and small boats.

The M2 machine gun on the M3 tripod provided a very stable firing platform. Together with its slow rate of fire and its traversing and elevating mechanism, the M2 was used to a very limited extent as a sniper weapon during the Vietnam war at fixed installations such as firebases. Snipers prefired the weapons at identifiable targets and worked the data into range cards insuring increased first-round accuracy. The 1st Battalion, 5th Infantry, 25th Infantry Division constructed 20-30 foot high shooting platforms, adding steel base plates and posts to further stabilize the M2 on the M3 tripod. Together with the use of Starlight night vision scopes, the M2 severely limited enemy movement within 900 yards (1,000m) of the perimeter of a firebase.

[ex 98C MI Dude]

Actually, we don't use .50 caliber against people....

We use it against their equipment! If it hits them in the process of destroying their gear, oh well! Sucks to be them. Shouldn't have taken up arms against us in the first place.