Distinct signature found in ’01 anthrax

Baltimore Sun ^ | 4/7/04 | Scott Shane

[TrebleRebel]

Distinct signature found in ’01 anthrax Discovery raises hope that source can be traced By Scott Shane Sun National Staff Originally published July 4, 2004 In a possible break for the FBI's investigation of the anthrax letters of 2001, scientists have discovered that the mailed anthrax was a mix of two slightly different samples, giving the bacteria a distinct signature that might make it easier to match with a source, according to two non-government experts who have been told of the finding. The discovery that bacteria taken from the letters all grew in the double pattern was made at least a year ago, and it is not known whether the FBI's hunt for a matching sample has succeeded.

[Mitchell]

Thanks for the ping.

This is just in time to get another delay in the lawsuits.

The minimum possible information was leaked. They didn't give a clue as to what type of characteristic distinguishes the two populations that were mixed.

By the way, a leak on the July 4 holiday is a bit strange. I guess somebody wants to get the minimum possible public exposure.

[Mitchell]

This recipe comes straight out of the cookbook of the nation that developed the weaponization method.

What cookbook are you referring to?

Or do you just mean that if we knew that some nation had used this weaponization method, then that nation, or somebody with access to their program, would be the prime suspect?

[Southack]

The most rational explanation of the anthrax investigations is that our government simply isn't ready to declare war yet, keyword being yet, against the nation that perpetrated the attacks.

Iraq is out of the way now, so it wasn't Iraq. Afghanistan is out of the way too, so it wasn't the Afghans.

Could be Syrian. Could be North Korean. Could be Iranian.

But Bush's strategy of knocking off one at a time rather than taking on two established governments at once seems to be the prudent way to handle this matter.

It does raise the question of which nation will be the next to fall to our wrath, though.

[shield]

Interesting....

[woofie]

I have a friend who was very involved in bio warfare at high levels he has long maintained it probably came from Iraq. Also the way it was dispersed (particles were made to float) is a key bit of evidence ....he says it could only have been done in a well equiped lab.

[woofie]

Also my conjecture is the people (Mohamed Atta etc.) who brought us 9/11 had the stuff ready to go when they attacked (someone else mailed itdays later)...If so is that not definitive proof of a 9/11 Iraq connection?

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Battle Axe thanks for the ping.

Carry was this the compound that Saddam imported, 25 tons, as I remember from that thread, which I can't find now???

[Carry_Okie]

Carry was this the compound that Saddam imported, 25 tons, as I remember from that thread, which I can't find now???

The fumed silica (Cab-O-Sil) was, but remember, any formulations chemist worth a crap who was familiar with aerisolizing an active would have known to use it. That technology is increasingly common as the drug delivery industry moves toward getting rid of needles (fear of HIV liability associated with needle-sticks of doctors and nurses). That's why patches and inhalants are so common these days.

The biologists who understand handling anthrax probably don't qualify to aerosolize it. It therefore means NOTHING that the FBI guys weren't able to replicate the Senate anthrax without an analysis of the project, its personnel, and its available tools. It could just be another stupid government SNAFU.

[TrebleRebel]

The silica coating technology for inhlational drug delivery is not that common. I don't know of any US products that plan to use it - the DPI (dry powder inhalation) players in the US are mostly relying on creating hollowed out spheres of drug (eg. insulin) to stop Van der Waals clumping.

However, there is a group in Germany that are experimenting with silica: http://www.mvt.uni-erlangen.de/Personen/MLinsenbuehler/Forschung.html

Note how difficult it was for them to coat lactose particles with silica and not simply end of with a messy mixture of lactose and silica.

Look at the SEMs - each lactose particle has a perfect coating of silica. There is no sign of any extraneous silica or secondary phase. They had to go to great lengths to achieve this - they oppositely charged the silica and lactose and mixed them in liquid nitrogen. The charged silica was attracted to the oppositely charged lactose. There are other ways of doing this as well. The point is - it's not easy.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

"To forensically characterize the anthrax evidence ... the FBI has contracted with 19 government, commercial and university laboratories which are performing research, analyses and evaluations to assist the FBI Laboratory," Lambert wrote.

Geez.....this looks to be a huge effort.

[Sal]

I don't know why they are witholding the information but they must have a very good reason.

Wouldn't it be something if the reason was this: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/569975/posts

[backhoe]

Interesting...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/569975/posts
The Strange Death of Ron Miller('97 OK anthrax death of Congressional witness)

[cgk]

Thanks for the ping... I still think the anthrax attacks were made by terrorists whose planes didn't get off the ground - or were grounded. It's highly unlikely that their success rate that day was 100%.

And I still believe it can be linked to Iraq's anthrax program. Whether it will be is another story.

Tin-foil alert: David Kelly, Senior biological weapons inspector to the UN and British weapons expert to Iraq, killed himself on July 17, Ba'athist Revolution Day or Liberation Day, after his name was linked to a "sexed up" report that preceded the invasion of Iraq. His body was discovered in a nearby woods by volunteer searchers.

David Kelly predicts his own death:
David Broucher, British ambassador to the disarmament conference, reported.. a conversation .. with Dr Kelly (where he) had asked Kelly what would happen if Iraq were invaded, and Kelly had replied, 'I will probably be found dead in the woods.'

Mr Broucher said the remark was made after Dr Kelly had explained to him that he had assured senior Iraqi officials that if they cooperated with United Nations weapons inspections they would have nothing to fear.

David Kelly, July 17, 2003: "'I will wait until the end of the week before judging - many dark actors playing games."

David Kelly: "When Iraq invaded Kuwait in August 1990, little did I realise that Saddam Hussein would dictate the next 10 years of my life."

[Shermy]

It took almost 3 years to discover this?

Maybe not, maybe they learned a long time ago. Will the judge ask? If it did take 3 years, why so long? My position is that they weren't testing it for what it was, but for what they hoped it be, perhaps with the disinformative persuasion of helpful outsiders, and the FBI only got their kick in the pants in the Nov. 2003 Science article - the date of the FBI's claim of "new" testings, ie, tests they negelected to do before.

It's a disgraceful scandal, hope someone spills the beans in the future.

BTW, yes, IMO, this leak is a preemptive "strike" to make the judge think there is validity to this "new' claim from the mere authority of it's retelling in the media. I'm sure of this because the Shane article was planted today in just one other publication: The South Florida Sun-Sentinel, the same place as the one other anthrax law suit, the AMI one. Coplete scam, expect more delays unless Hatfill's lawyers explain the delays, and pose why the heck is another delay needed due to scientific tests.

[Mitchell]

Fresh Wind: It took almost 3 years to discover this?

Shermy: Maybe not, maybe they learned a long time ago.

According to the article, "The discovery... was made at least a year ago."

So, presuming that the story isn't a lie that was just made up when needed, this information has been withheld for at least a year. The leak was made at this time for some particular reason; it would appear that the purpose of the information release is to extend the lawsuit delay. We'll see.

[jpl]

The South Florida Sun-Sentinel, the same place as the one other anthrax law suit, the AMI one. Coplete scam, expect more delays unless Hatfill's lawyers explain the delays, and pose why the heck is another delay needed due to scientific tests.

Man, even the thoroughly moronic Nick Kristof has decided not to further embarrass himself by following this inane saga. Who's the Sun Sentinel's useful idiot counterpart to Scott Shane?

[Khan Noonian Singh]

Man, even the thoroughly moronic Nick Kristof has decided not to further embarrass himself by following this inane saga.

That was its purpose. He responded as surely as one of Pavlov's dogs. Others like him have taken the lesson and have learnt to avoid the issue. No one will touch it now. No one on the left, and no one on the right.

They flew into the flame just like moths. Once burnt, they won't be returning.

[Khan Noonian Singh]

Man, even the thoroughly moronic Nick Kristof has decided not to further embarrass himself by following this inane saga.

That was its purpose. He responded as surely as one of Pavlov's dogs. Others like him have taken the lesson and have learnt to avoid the issue. No one will touch it now. No one on the left, and no one on the right.

They flew into the flame just like moths. Once burnt, they won't be returning.

[Khan Noonian Singh]

Man, even the thoroughly moronic Nick Kristof has decided not to further embarrass himself by following this inane saga.

That was its purpose. He responded as surely as one of Pavlov's dogs. Others like him have taken the lesson and have learnt to avoid the issue. No one will touch it now. No one on the left, and no one on the right.

They flew into the flame just like moths. Once burnt, they won't be returning.