Posted on 06/23/2004 1:36:23 PM PDT by John Lenin
By DAVID CRARY, AP National Writer
NEW YORK - While most single young men aspire to marriage, about one-fifth are deeply skeptical of the institution and their prospects of making it work, according to a new national survey which closely links men's marital outlook to their upbringing.
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The survey, released Wednesday by the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University, found that the men with negative attitudes were far more likely than the rest to have been raised by a divorced parent in a non-churchgoing family.
"Most young men are still 'the marrying kind,'" said a report accompanying the survey. "Moreover, the men who are the best 'marriage bets' are those who are more traditional in their family and religious background."
One critic said such assertions were too broad, fostering illusions about traditional families and overlooking the nuanced attitudes of those raised by divorced parents.
Of the 1,010 men aged 25-34 who were surveyed, 569 were married. Of that group, 81 percent said they got married "because it was the right time to settle down." The desire to have children was a major factor for 35 percent; only 15 percent said they married sooner than they wished because of pressure from their partner.
The survey was part of the annual "State of Our Unions" report authored by Marriage Project co-directors David Popenoe and Barbara Dafoe Whitehead.
Their report avoided making specific recommendations, but Popenoe, in a telephone interview, counseled women seeking husbands to "take into consideration the guy's background — don't avoid the traditional guys."
"A huge percentage of the men say they'll marry when it's time to settle down, which a lot of women don't quite understand," Popenoe said. "A word of advice to women — make sure you're getting the guy at just this time."
Survey responses from the married men painted a positive picture of marriage — 94 percent said they were happier married than single, and 73 percent said their sex life was better.
"For men, even more than for women, marriage is a transformative event," Popenoe and Whitehead wrote. "They work harder and do better financially than men who are not married. They are less likely to hang out in bars, to abuse alcohol or drugs."
According to the survey, married men are roughly twice as likely as unmarried men to go religious services regularly. Three-quarters of the married men said it was important for children to be raised in a religion, compared to 59 percent of unmarried men.
Regarding parenting, married and single men had similar views — about two-thirds of each group said having children shouldn't be the main purpose of marrying.
Among the single men, those interested in marriage were more likely to have had a father fully involved in their upbringing than those who were skeptical of marriage. The unmarried men raised by two parents also were more likely to be trusting of women than those raised in single-parent homes.
Stephanie Coontz, a history professor at Evergreen State College in Olympia, Wash., and author of several books on families, questioned the utility of such findings.
"There's this endless stream of correlations that seem designed to convince people, 'By golly, we'd all do better if everybody got married and stayed married,'" she said. "That's unrealistic in the modern world."
She said researchers should conduct more detailed surveys, for example, comparing the outlooks of men whose parents divorced amicably with men whose parents endured in an unhappy marriage.
Of the unmarried men who were surveyed, 53 percent said they were not interested in getting married anytime soon. Most agreed that "at this stage in my life I want fun and freedom"; 47 percent said they wouldn't marry until they could afford to own a home.
Books, Seminars, TV, Movies, Magazines.... all largely irrelevant to the Male Behavioral Psyche.
Men learn FACTS by rationally-digested inputs. This is not how we learn behaviors. As far as Behaviors go... we Learn by Doing.
How do you think the "Bad Boys" survive amongst us? They behave badly, and are rewarded by the attentions of Women seeking either a "thrill" or the chance to "reform" them. And, sure enough, they learn by doing.
If Women reward the "Good Boys" with their attentions and affections -- and shun, spurn, and deny the "Bad Boys" -- then as I said, Darwinian Sexual Selection will take care of the Improvement of the Human Male, over time. Behaviorally, Men Learn by Doing.
best, OP
I think it's gonna be. ;-)
*smooch*
Not surprising, but tragic, and false. The purpose of marriage is for the spouses to aid each other in obtaining salvation. But a necessary corollary of this principle is that the couple must be open to the begetting of children and assisting the children in attaining salvation.
The purpose of the marital act is twofold, the unity of the couple and the generation of children.
I have a different theory on that --- if it's not in a form ready to eat he can't find it.
I wonder if more people shouldn't though --- at least consider if their partner is someone who would be decent in a divorce because chances are if a divorce does result, they're going to still have children to raise and a very bitter divorce could damage them greatly. Plus if you marry someone who would be decent in a divorce, they're probably going to be better to stay married to.
Then, might as well do away with all classroom teaching for men, as well as ALL reading material, all church sermons, etc.
I have no problem acknowledging that men learn thru practical lessons, but a little written material never hurt.
Why do you think the book industry is a multi-billion dollar enterprise? It ain't just the women reading. And I do believe a little behaviorial change occurs along the way.
Example: Porn helps to cause degenerate behavior; I think positive printed material helps to build good behavior.
Truth is...women could learn to be more rational and men could learn to be more verbal. In a marriage, this would exemplify love in both directions.
Interesting ... I'll have to test that!
No, you missed what I said.
Surely you have already read about how the "testosterone wash" undergone by the brains of Male Fetuses in the twelfth to fourteenth week of gestation tends to divide the Cognitive and Intuitive Centers of the Male Brain to a greater degree than that of Females.
The result being that Males are more naturally proficient in Mathematical function (and indeed, Logocentric function in general), but are less proficient in multi-tasking, empathy, socialization, and cross-hemispheric incorporation of inputs overall.
Thus, as I said, rationally-digested inputs (reading, classrooms, etc) are how Men learn FACTS. And a good thing, too, for Men and the whole Human Race; Men are naturally superior Facticians (and, conversely, naturally inferior Empaths).
However -- this simply does not largely apply to Men's learning of behaviors.
But by the same token, it it is true that that the Cognitive and Intuitive Centers of a Male's brain are less closely joined in operation than in the Female, then it's no surprise that "self-help books" will be of markedly less benefit to the Male -- due to lesser co-operation of the Cognitive and Intuitive Centers.
It's just how we are. We repond diferently, to different Inputs.
I have no problem acknowledging that men learn thru practical lessons, but a little written material never hurt. Why do you think the book industry is a multi-billion dollar enterprise? It ain't just the women reading. And I do believe a little behaviorial change occurs along the way. Example: Porn helps to cause degenerate behavior; I think positive printed material helps to build good behavior.
Well, since you brought it up -- Porn is an unfortunately graphic and blatant illustration of what I am saying.
If you want a Male to learn a Fact, then sure -- give him a Book (Men are natural Facticians, given a good book).
If you want a Male to learn a Behavior, then reward his Good Behaviors ("learn by doing"), punish the Bad, and provide him with good Male Examples ("learn by doing", vicarious).
Books, Seminars, TV, Movies, Magazines.... excepting the most Directly-Visual and Non-Cognitive (such as Porn), all largely irrelevant to the cultivation of Male Behavior.
No, they really can't.
To a point, sure... but ultimately, God made the Sexes different, and that is -- unavoidably -- how we are. (If God didn't want us to be different, He would have made us all Hermaphrodites).
At 12 to 14 Weeks of age, the brain of the Male Fetus undergoes a testosterone-based Chemical Wash which permanently reduces the inter-connections between the Cognitive and Intuitive Centers of the Male Brain. The Female Brain undergoes an estrogen-based Chemical Wash which does not so impair the inter-connections between the Cognitive and Intuitive Centers of the Female Brain.
As a result -- the powers of pure Rationality in the Male will, at the outer end of the Bell Curve, tend to excel at the highest levels in markedly greater numbers than the comparable number of Females (on the other hand, the Male will also produce more Idiots at the lower end of the Bell Curve). Meanwhile, the Female will naturally be superior in matters of Socialization, Empathy, and Multi-Tasking, and will develop to Maturity sooner than the Male in those areas.
It's a simple matter of unalterable brain chemistry. We're just different... God made us so.
My father remarried within 3 years of the divorce, and from that time on, was essentially absent from my life (he had plenty of time for his new wife and her three children, but little for me). My mother remarried within 4 years of the divorce, and since I lived with her, I had to deal with a stepfather in the house.
Needless to say, essentially losing both of my parents to some new spouse who didn't give a damn about me didn't do much for my upbringing. And both of the new spouses eventually convinced both of my parents to move far away - to Florida (I live in New Jersey).
Whether my skepticism stems from that experience, or from what I have seen and heard among my friends and coworkers (about 85% of the marriages seem to be pretty miserable, and the divorces overwhelmingly punish the men beyond all reason), I am not sure.
As mentioned in this article, I do have a hard time trusting the women I date, at least when it comes to considering marriage. There's just too much for me to lose if it ends up in a divorce. As I explained it to a friend recently, marriage is a gamble, and one that favors women by a wide margin. For a guy, marriage is like a bet on the flip of a coin (50/50 odds) where he has to put down $95 and if he wins, he gets $100 back. For the woman, its the same bet, but she only puts down $5, and if she wins, she gets $100 back. Who on earth would risk $95 to win $5? On the other hand, who wouldn't risk $5 to win $95? This is why women are almost always the ones who push for marriage, and why men are often very reluctant.
My point is that I am not sure if it was my childhood with divorced parents, or the incredibly anti-male divorce court system, that makes me hesitant about marriage. Maybe it's both.
Women, and young girls are dumb. They want the exciting men. Mostof the time these men donot make good choices as prospective dates, and spouses. The good men are there it is up to the women to shun them. Otherwise, they will think their behavior is attractive.
Truth is...women could learn to be more rational and men could learn to be more verbal.
Is this what you mean?
" Am I fat in this dress?"
"Yes, but you were fat before you put it on."
Ah so, you are right. I would bet the percentage would be much higher, if they were 35 and over. Suppose?
Maybe this is why prison inmates seem to attract women. Kind of sucks doesn't it?
"Well, we met at a bar, so I get nostalgic every time we stumble out of one together."
ROTFLMAO!
I met my wife at the Welfare Department!
(We both worked there, she in IS, me in the Security Department).
I don't get nostalgic when I see a homeless person, however......(grin)
No.
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