Darwin-Free Fun for Creationists

New York Times ^ | 05/01/2004 | ABBY GOODNOUGH

[general_re]

PENSACOLA, Fla., April 29 — Robert and Schön Passmore took their children to Disney World last fall and left bitterly disappointed. As Christians who reject evolutionary theory, the family scoffed at the park's dinosaur attractions, which date the apatosaurus, brachiosaurus and the like to prehistoric times.

"My kids kept recognizing flaws in the presentation," said Mrs. Passmore, of Jackson, Ala. "You know — the whole `millions of years ago dinosaurs ruled the earth' thing."

So this week, the Passmores sought out a lower-profile Florida attraction: Dinosaur Adventure Land, a creationist theme park and museum here that beckons children to "find out the truth about dinosaurs" with games that roll science and religion into one big funfest with the message that Genesis, not science, tells the real story of the creation.

Kent Hovind, the minister who opened the park in 2001, said his aim was to spread the message of creationism through a fixture of mainstream America — the theme park — instead of pleading its case at academic conferences and in courtrooms.

Mr. Hovind, a former public school science teacher with his own ministry, Creation Science Evangelism, and a hectic lecture schedule, said he had opened Dinosaur Adventure Land to counter all the science centers and natural history museums that explain the evolution of life with Darwinian theory. There are dinosaur bone replicas, with accompanying explanations that God made dinosaurs on Day 6 of the creation as described in Genesis, 6,000 years ago. Among the products the park gift shop peddles are T-shirts with a small fish labeled "Darwin" getting gobbled by a bigger fish labeled "Truth."

"There are a lot of creationists that are really smart and debate the intellectuals, but the kids are bored after five minutes," said Mr. Hovind, who looks boyish at 51 and talks fast. "You're missing 98 percent of the population if you only go the intellectual route."

The theme park is just the latest approach to promoting creationism outside the usual school curriculum route, which Mr. Hovind and others see as important, but too limited and not sufficiently appealing to modern young families. Creationist groups are also promoting creationist vacations, including dinosaur digs in South Dakota, fossil-collecting trips in Australia and New Zealand, and tours of the Grand Canyon ("raft the canyon and learn how Noah's flood contributed to the formation").

Dan Johnson, an assistant manager of the park, said there were also creationism-themed cruises, with lectures on the subject amid swimming and shuffleboard.

A Kentucky creationist group called Answers in Genesis says it is building a 100,000-square-foot complex outside Cincinnati with a museum, classrooms, a planetarium and a special-effects theater where moviegoers can experience the flood and other events described in Genesis.

Ken Ham, the group's chief executive, said marketing surveys suggested that the complex would draw not just home-schooling families and other creationists, but mainstream church groups and curiosity seekers. Mr. Ham said a former Universal Studios art director was designing exhibits for the complex, including dioramas of Adam and Eve and a model of Noah's Ark. The complex will open in 2006 at the earliest, Mr. Ham said.

At Dinosaur Adventure Land, visitors can make their own Grand Canyon replica with sand and read a sign deriding textbooks for teaching that the Colorado River formed the canyon over millions of years: "This is clearly not possible. The top of the Grand Canyon is 4,000 feet higher than where the river enters the canyon! Rivers do not flow up hill!"

There is a movie depicting the creation, the flood and the fall of man, which fast-forwards from a lush Garden of Eden to a New York City traffic jam.

There are no mechanized rides at Dinosaur Adventure Land — no creationist-themed roller coasters, scramblers or even a ferris wheel — but instead, a simple discovery center and museum and about a dozen outdoor games, each of which has a "science lesson" and "spiritual lesson" posted nearby. A group of about 60 parents and home-schooled children who visited Wednesday, including the Passmores, spent all afternoon trying the games, which promote religious faith more than creationist tenets.

Take Jumpasaurus, which involves jumping on a trampoline while trying to throw a ball through a hoop as many times as possible in a minute. The science lesson: "You will use coordination in this game, which means you will be doing more than one thing at once." The spiritual lesson, according to Mr. Johnson: "You need to learn to be coordinated for Jesus Christ so you can get more things done for him."

Somewhat more creationist in approach is the Nerve-Wracking Ball: a bowling ball on a rope, dangling from a tall tree branch. A child stands before the ball, and then a park guide gives it a shove from a specific angle, so that it comes careering back at the child's face only to stop just in front of it. The child wins if he does not flinch, proving he has "faith in God's laws" — in this case, that a swinging object will never come back higher than the point from which it took off.

Eugenie Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education, which tracks creationist programs, said traditional creationists like Mr. Hovind had in fact given up on building intellectual credibility years ago.

"They have been going the grass-roots mainstream route for at least 20 years," she said. "So I'm not surprised they are the ones sponsoring group vacations and theme parks and things like that."

Dinosaur Adventure Land, tucked behind a highway lined with car dealerships in this metropolitan area of 425,000, sits next to Mr. Hovind's home and the offices of Creation Science Evangelism, which he said he founded in 1989. Mr. Hovind is well known in Pensacola, and even in a region where religious billboards almost outnumber commercial ones he is controversial. Escambia County sued him in 2000 after he refused to get a $50 permit before building his theme park, saying the government had no authority over a church.

Just last week Internal Revenue Service agents used a search warrant to remove financial documents from Mr. Hovind's home and offices, saying he was not paying taxes and had neither a business license nor tax-exempt status for his enterprises.

Mr. Hovind did not want to discuss the I.R.S. investigation, saying only, "I don't have any tax obligations."

The man who calls himself Dr. Dino is also controversial among creationists, some of whom say he discredits their movement with some of his pseudo-scientific claims. Mr. Hovind got into a dispute in 2002 with Answers in Genesis, when he took issue with an article it published called "Arguments We Think Creationists Should Not Use." One such argument was that footprints found in Texas proved that man and dinosaurs coexisted; Mr. Hovind said he considered the argument, now abandoned by many creationists, valid. Mr. Hovind said he gave 700 lectures a year and that 38,000 people had visited his park, at $7 a head. According to a map that invites visitors to pinpoint their hometown, most come from the Florida Panhandle and from Alabama, Mississippi and Tennessee.

Rachel Painter, camp director at the Alpha Omega Institute, which runs several creationist family summer camps in Colorado, said creationist vacations had gained popularity as the number of Christian home-schooling families had grown. The institute started its camps 18 years ago with 4 families per session, she said, but now up to 18 attend each, and from more states.

Wade and Joan Killingsworth, who belong to a home-schooling coalition called Solid Rock Christian School, said they took their children to Colonial Williamsburg over spring break and came to Dinosaur Adventure Land because it was similarly educational. But they and the Passmores, who traveled from Alabama with eight minivans of like-minded families, said this type of road trip had far more to offer.

"We've been to museums, discovery centers, where you have to sit there and take the evolutionary stuff," Mr. Passmore said. "It feels good for them to finally hear it in a public place, something that reinforces their beliefs."

[Triple Word Score]

Hi! Thanks! I'm glad to be back. Been a long I don't know how many weeks since I was up to posting much.

[Ichneumon]

Hovind: "You're missing 98 percent of the population if you only go the intellectual route."

Man, you just can't make this stuff up...

[Ichneumon]

"We've been to museums, discovery centers, where you have to sit there and take the evolutionary stuff," Mr. Passmore said. "It feels good for them to finally hear it in a public place, something that reinforces their beliefs."

And hey, "feeling good" hearing whatever "reinforces your beliefs" is what it's all about, eh?

Gag.

[xm177e2]

I believe it is called a creationist museum.

After the second-to-last person leaves, the last one will become part of the exhibit.

[Ichneumon]

Eugenie Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education, which tracks creationist programs, said traditional creationists like Mr. Hovind had in fact given up on building intellectual credibility years ago.

Yet another "more true than the way they intended it" announcement.

[Ichneumon]

At Dinosaur Adventure Land, visitors can make their own Grand Canyon replica with sand and read a sign deriding textbooks for teaching that the Colorado River formed the canyon over millions of years: "This is clearly not possible. The top of the Grand Canyon is 4,000 feet higher than where the river enters the canyon! Rivers do not flow up hill!"

Then hey, how does that river get through that canyon today, anyway? Boggle.

Plus, Hovind has clearly never heard of plate tectonics and rising strata. Sheesh. They're clearly presenting the "creation" part, but where's the "science" part?

[Trinity_Tx]

"...we can ignore what they tell us. Those atheist scientists are just trying to do the Devil's work, undermining the faith of true believers--who may have to actually think about their testimony and integrate it with physical reality..."

Or, as my mother puts it, "now you just shush about all that..." Every question or verbalization of a concept inconsistent with traditional, literal interpretation of scripture is treated as rebelliousness.

What's amazing is there is 99% of the dialogue on their part is not a critical examination or critique of the proposed evidence, but a warning about what "going there" might lead to in terms of our faith and ultimately our morality/behavior. So shush them or use any tactic of debate to deny it, because whether the science is valid or not, if too many thought that way, we'd all just turn into savages!

While I see no reason to lower my standards of morality, my faith did crumble. But, it wasn't due to belief in the evidences of common descent, but a realization that, if they are so ready to ignore truths in the realm of science, then how open are their eyes when it comes to spiritual truths?

[AmericaUnited]

Ahh, yes. Another ignorant Darwinian religious fanatic ranting...

link

... And somehow this attitude did not hinder them in their commitment to the "scientific method." In fact one of them, Sir Francis Bacon, is credited with formulating and establishing the scientific method! They seem also to have been able to maintain a proper "scientific attitude," for it was these men (Newton, Pasteur, Linnaeus, Faraday, Pascal, Lord Kelvin, Maxwell, Kepler, etc.) whose researches and analyses led to the very laws and concepts of science which brought about our modern scientific age. The mechanistic scientists of the present are dwarfed in comparison to these intellectual giants of the past. Even the achievements of an Einstein (not to mention Darwin!) are trivial in comparison. The real breakthroughs, the new fields, the most beneficial discoveries of science were certainly not delayed (in fact probably were hastened) by the creationist motivations of these great founders of modern science.

And here is a list of some of the IGNORANT, UNSCIENTIFIC, PEA-BRAINED, MORONS, according to Triple Word Score and his ilk:

TABLE I SCIENTIFIC DISCIPLINES ESTABLISHED BY CREATIONIST SCIENTISTS
DISCIPLINE	SCIENTIST
ANTISEPTIC SURGERY	JOSEPH LISTER (1827-1912)
BACTERIOLOGY	LOUIS PASTEUR (1822-1895)
CALCULUS	ISAAC NEWTON (1642-1727)
CELESTIAL MECHANICS	JOHANN KEPLER (1571-1630)
CHEMISTRY	ROBERT BOYLE (1627-1691)
COMPARATIVE ANATOMY	GEORGES CUVIER (1769-1832)
COMPUTER SCIENCE	CHARLES BABBAGE (1792-1871)
DIMENSIONAL ANALYSIS	LORD RAYLEIGH (1842-1919)
DYNAMICS	ISAAC NEWTON (1642-1727)
ELECTRONICS	JOHN AMBROSE FLEMING (1849-1945)
ELECTRODYNAMICS	JAMES CLERK MAXWELL (1831-1879)
ELECTRO-MAGNETICS	MICHAEL FARADAY (1791-1867)
ENERGETICS	LORD KELVIN (1824-1907)
ENTOMOLOGY OF LIVING INSECTS	HENRI FABRE (1823-1915)
FIELD THEORY	MICHAEL FARADAY (1791-1867)
FLUID MECHANICS	GEORGE STOKES (1819-1903)
GALACTIC ASTRONOMY	WILLIAM HERSCHEL (1738-1822)
GAS DYNAMICS	ROBERT BOYLE (1627-1691)
GENETICS	GREGOR MENDEL (1822-1884)
GLACIAL GEOLOGY	LOUIS AGASSIZ (1807-1873)
GYNECOLOGY	JAMES SIMPSON (1811-1870)
HYDRAULICS	LEONARDO DA VINCI (1452-1519)
HYDROGRAPHY	MATTHEW MAURY (1806-1873)
HYDROSTATICS	BLAISE PASCAL (1623-1662)
ICHTHYOLOGY	LOUIS AGASSIZ (1807-1873)
ISOTOPIC CHEMISTRY	WILLIAM RAMSAY (1852-1916)
MODEL ANALYSIS	LORD RAYLEIGH (1842-1919)
NATURAL HISTORY	JOHN RAY (1627-1705)
NON-EUCLIDEAN GEOMETRY	BERNHARD RIEMANN (1826- 1866)
OCEANOGRAPHY	MATTHEW MAURY (1806-1873)
OPTICAL MINERALOGY	DAVID BREWSTER (1781-1868)
PALEONTOLOGY	JOHN WOODWARD (1665-1728)
PATHOLOGY	RUDOLPH VIRCHOW (1821-1902)
PHYSICAL ASTRONOMY	JOHANN KEPLER (1571-1630)
REVERSIBLE THERMODYNAMICS	JAMES JOULE (1818-1889)
STATISTICAL THERMODYNAMICS	JAMES CLERK MAXWELL (1831-1879)
STRATIGRAPHY	NICHOLAS STENO (1631-1686)
SYSTEMATIC BIOLOGY	CAROLUS LINNAEUS (1707-1778)
THERMODYNAMICS	LORD KELVIN (1824-1907)
THERMOKINETICS	HUMPHREY DAVY (1778-1829)
VERTEBRATE PALEONTOLOGY	GEORGES CUVIER (1769-1832)

 

TABLE II NOTABLE INVENTIONS, DISCOVERIES OR DEVELOPMENTS BY CREATIONIST SCIENTISTS
CONTRIBUTION	SCIENTIST
ABSOLUTE TEMPERATURE SCALE	LORD KELVIN (1824-1907)
ACTUARIAL TABLES	CHARLES BABBAGE (1792-1871)
BAROMETER	BLAISE PASCAL (1623-1662)
BIOGENESIS LAW	LOUIS PASTEUR (1822-1895)
CALCULATING MACHINE	CHARLES BABBAGE (1792-1871)
CHLOROFORM	JAMES SIMPSON (1811-1870)
CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM	CAROLUS LINNAEUS (1707-1778)
DOUBLE STARS	WILLIAM HERSCHEL (1738-1822)
ELECTRIC GENERATOR	MICHAEL FARADAY (1791-1867)
ELECTRIC MOTOR	JOSEPH HENRY (1797-1878)
EPHEMERIS TABLES	JOHANN KEPLER (1571-1630)
FERMENTATION CONTROL	LOUIS PASTEUR (1822-1895)
GALVANOMETER	JOSEPH HENRY (1797-1878)
GLOBAL STAR CATALOG	JOHN HERSCHEL (1792-1871)
INERT GASES	WILLIAM RAMSAY (1852-1916)
KALEIDOSCOPE	DAVID BREWSTER (1781-1868)
LAW OF GRAVITY	ISAAC NEWTON (1642-1727)
MINE SAFETY LAMP	HUMPHREY DAVY (1778-1829)
PASTEURIZATION	LOUIS PASTEUR (1822-1895)
REFLECTING TELESCOPE	ISAAC NEWTON (1642-1727)
SCIENTIFIC METHOD	FRANCIS BACON (1561-1626)
SELF-INDUCTION	JOSEPH HENRY (1797-1878)
TELEGRAPH	SAMUEL F.B. MORSE (1791-1872)
THERMIONIC VALVE	AMBROSE FLEMING (1849-1945)
TRANS-ATLANTIC CABLE	LORD KELVIN (1824-1907)
VACCINATION & IMMUNIZATION	LOUIS PASTEUR (1822-1895)

[Ichneumon]

And here is a list of some of the IGNORANT, UNSCIENTIFIC, PEA-BRAINED, MORONS, according to Triple Word Score and his ilk:

Look, "believers in God" (i.e., your list) is not synonymous with the sort of "don't confuse me with the evidence, all I need to know is right here in the Bible" creationist nutballs who think that dinosaurs were alive a few thousand years ago.

Having faith is fine, as long as you don't use it as an excuse to reject any observation that might raise uncomfortable questions - clearly the scientists on your list were open to new ideas, and thus were able to break new ground.

But the flat-Earth type creationists are another ball of wax entirely. They're like the classic scene from one of the old "Cheech and Chong" albums. C&C are trying to get their car started, when a street preacher wanders up and testifies, with complete sincerity and no sense of irony, "It used to be, I was all messed up on drugs. But then I found the Lord. Now, I'm all messed up on the Lord!"

[AmericaUnited]

The problem is not the Bible. It is some people's "interpretation" of what it says. Although this article is talking about Archeology, it applies here equality well.

"...
Archeology and historical documents can never prove that the Bible is inspired. Rather, the confirmation of the statements of the Bible through archeological and historical investigations provides us with powerful evidence of the historical truthfulness of the Word of God and indicates that its statements were accurately transmitted over thousands of years.

One of the greatest of these pioneer archeologists is the Jewish scholar Dr. Nelson Glueck, considered by many to be the greatest Jewish archeologist in history. Professor Glueck has written, "It is worth emphasizing that in all this work no archaeological discovery has ever controverted a single, properly understood biblical statement." Professor Glueck's statement is a powerful antidote to the pervasive skepticism and unbelief of so many of the liberal theologians who inhabit the seminaries and universities of the West. Despite the cynicism and skepticism of many liberal theologians to the accuracy of the biblical account the scientific evidence of archeology continues to confirm the accuracy of the Bible's statements. Meanwhile, liberal theologians continue to ignore this overwhelming evidence in favor of their presuppositions and strongly held prejudice against the authority, inspiration, and accuracy of the Word of God.
... "

link

[Triple Word Score]

There, there. It's okay. You can get through this night EVEN THOUGH someone, somewhere, has posted something on Free Republic that offends you. Maybe some Zoloft....

[Triple Word Score]

You made that point so well--and without the use of a single eye-searing yellow data table!

[Triple Word Score]

I know many good Christians who have post-graduate degrees in hard science. Amazingly, many of them have birthdates somewhat later than the 17th century.

Have a good night, and please tell your mother what a fine job she did educating you. She can be proud. As Heinlein said, you can probably tie your shoes all by yourself, and be trusted not to make messes in the house. :-)

[AmericaUnited]

You can get through this night

Yes, quite nicely. Went to bed at 9:30 pm, slept like a baby for 6.5 hours, and woke up at 4 am.

[AmericaUnited]

Let's shrink God down to the size of one single book, written by a select set of people whose understanding was that of shepherds and fishermen;

Don't even venture to try to ask God Himself to help you understand how it all fits together. He might answer

Talk about unscientific, illogical thinking....

You imply that the Bible was not the "inspired word of God" (A), and yet we should ask the very God who said His Word WAS inspired and IS complete truth, how the world was formed (B).

Try this "higher math" out:

IF A = FALSE, B = STUPID
IF A = TRUE, B = LOGICAL

[Triple Word Score]

Who has had custody of the text of the Bible since it was handed to humans? Who translated it? Let's not go into what you think I imply. Let's look at the history of the documents and who has decided what should be included and what left out.

I KNOW I have had prayer personally answered. It's nothing I could prove to you. But I know God answers prayers today and continues to reveal truth, both directly through revelation and indirectly by His creation of a coherent, complex, and perfectly balanced universe.

[Triple Word Score]

P.S. He generally expects us to do the work first--we'll get the answers best if we've studied very hard for the exam, then pray for help understanding the questions. We do all we can then ask Him to help us with the rest...that's true of absolutely everything in life.

If you don't have calculus and partial differential equations under your belt, though, you might as well just keep working hard at the "Thou shalt nots" because after all that's the highest level most humans reach. There's nothing wrong with that. You'll be in good company. :-)

But don't pretend you can tell me how long ago dinosaurs lived if you don't know how to run a high-res mass spectrometer. You simply don't know what you're talking about. :-) And the Bible was NEVER MEANT TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS.

[Lion Den Dan]

If you confine yourself to one book, you believe in a God small and weak enough that you can control Him.... ++++

Kind of like the Koran??

[Triple Word Score]

Yeah. The history of the Koran and the prophet who wrote it is really amazing...and scary. If you look at websites where various self-made authorities on Islam give advice to the common Muslim, you get the feeling that they've got their small God very well boxed-in indeed, and a very good handle on the best ways to "SHUSH" any inconvenient questions.

[PatrickHenry]

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