Posted on 04/05/2004 2:37:58 AM PDT by Nitro
Concur. Though there's a considerable flash signature at launch, that's much less visible in flight. It's possible, though, that a reworked or experimentally enhanced missile was involved, much as we upgraded some older Soviet Strela missile launchers for use of the Contras, given to specially selected and trained gunners.
Navy Standard Missile vertical launch shot:
What's the Soviet surface-to-air shipborne 2-stage missile that launches from ship, then fires a second supersonic warhead stage once it closes with and locks on the target. I'll admit that Russian naval weapons systems fall outside my area of interest and middlin' knowledge, but that sure does sound like the profile and characteristic described.
Might the FBI coverup efforts have been directed at deflecting the public wrath from the Russian suppliers, or possibly a former Soviet client?
13,123 feet - less than the 13,800 recorded by the FAA. Seems unlikely that impact would occur at the tip of the range.
Correct. A missile with a heavier warhead might have it reduced to stretch some additional range/altitude, not likely with a Stinger or RBS-70. But a developmental or upgraded version might manage, and *golden BBs* do happen. A terrorist launch team would presumably be under orders to shoot a more certain target, a sitting duck- unless there was a target of mandatory importance on that particular flight.
The SA-10A launch complex consists of a missile battery which includes a battery command post and engagement control center, the large CLAM SHELL 3D continuous wave pulse Doppler target acquisition radar, the FLAP LID A I-band multi-function phased-array trailer-mounted engagement radar with digital beam steering in hardened sites, and up to 12 semi-trailer erector-launchers which mount four tubular missile container-launchers. The towing unit for the semi-trailer erector-launcher is the KrAZ-260V (6 x 6) tractor truck. The launchers are usually positioned on concrete pads with the trailers being leveled by the use of four hydraulic jacks. An S-300PMU Regiment comprises three such batteries and employs the BIG BIRD 4 meter tall F-band long-range, 3D surveillance and tracking radar at the Regimental command post for initial target detection.
In the mid-1980s design work on the mobile S-300PMU SA-10B GRUMBLE Mod 1 was completed. This version of the weapon is carried and vertically launched from a dedicated four-round capacity transporter-erector launcher vehicle based on the MAZ-7910 (8 x 8) truck chassis. The combined engagement radar and control station is mounted on the same chassis. The SA-10B mobile missile battery comprises the combined FLAP LID B engagement radar and engagement control/command post station mounted on a MAZ-7910 chassis, up to 12 TELs (SPU: mobile launcher unit), a trailer-mounted 36D6; CLAM SHELL 3D 360º scanning target designation radar, and a maintenance section. The SA-10B Regiment consists of three such batteries with an additional radar section and a number of TZM (transport-loader vehicles) MAZ-7910 transloaders for resupply purposes. The TEL carries a total of four sealed container-launcher cylinders, each of which is used for the storage, transport and launching of a missile. When traveling the launcher system is carriedin the horizontal position but at the launch site is elevated to an angle of 90º. The combined FLAP LID-B radar/engagement control vehicle has the 2.75 m2 planar array antenna on a box-like antenna mount and support systems container. When traveling the array is carried horizontally, and when deployed it is raised above the container to an angle of approximately 60º.
The battery takes only five minutes to deploy once it comes to the halt. The vehicles have electronic inter-vehicle communications and data transmission links with elevatable pole-type antenna, and thus it does not require interconnecting vehicle cables. Each of the MAZ-7910 derivative vehicles has four hydraulic jacks positioned either side between the first/second and third/fourth road wheels which are lowered to the ground to provide a more stable and level environment. Missile guidance is of the Track-Via-Missile (TVM) type with the FLAP LID guidance radar capable of engaging up to six targets simultaneously, with two missiles assigned per target to ensure a high kill probability. Maximum target velocity is stated as 4200 km/h with the battery capable of firing three missiles per second.
If the battery is employed in rugged terrain or forest then the engagement radar system can be mounted on a special trailer-mounted extendible 24.4 m high tower to improve radar coverage. The use of this extended-range radar for low level engagements increases the system's range to 43,200 m from the original 32,000 m. In its sealed container-launcher cylinder the missile is considered to be a round of ammunition and is said not to require any check-ups or adjustments for a period of 10 years. The S-300PMU1 is an extended range version of S-300PMU with a limited anti-ballistic missile capability, including capabilities against aerodynamic targets with speeds up to 3 kilometers/second.The S-300PMU2 Favorit variant is a new missile with larger warhead and better guidance with a range of 200 km, versus the 150 km of previous versions. Unveiled at the MAKS'97 exhibition in August 1997, it represents a thorough modification of the S-300PMU1. The first tests were performed on 10 August 1995 at the Kapustin Yar firing range. One new element is the entirely new 96L6E autonomous mobile radar, which works in conjunction with the 83M6E2 control post and S-300MPU2 launchers. The new 48N6E2 missile, developed by MKB Fakel, weighs 1,800 kg, and is 7.5 m long and 0.5 m in diameter. After a cold start in the upright position with help of a catapult, the 48N6E2 accelerates up to 1,900 m/s in 12 sec time, and then approaches the target from above. The 48N6E2 differs from the older 48N6E in having a new warhead specially designed for destroying ballistic missiles, with a warhead weight of 145 kg versus 70-100 kg.
The S-300PMU2 Favorit can engage targets flying from 10 m to 27 km above the surface at a speed of up to 10,000 km/h. It is claimed that it has a kill ratio ranging from 0.8 to 0.93 against aircraft and from 0.8 to 0.98 against Tomahawk-class cruise missiles. Export Sales China In the early 1990s China imported 100-120 S-300 missile systems which are deployed aroung Bejing, and it has been suggested that China intends to obtain a license to produce them, with a designation variously reported as either HQ-10 or HQ-15. The first Chinese copy have been tested, but all the components of the first copy version were imported from Russia. The October 1999 parade celebrating the 50th anniversary of the People's Republic of China in Beijing featured a large number of truck towed quad-cannister systems associated with the SA-10. India Since 1995 India has been negotiating with Russia regarding purchase of the S-300, in response to Pakistan's deployment of M-11 missiles from China. In 1995 Russian Defense Deputy Minister Kokoshin offered to sell S-300 missiles during his trip to India. Following this offer Indian officials started negotiations with the Russian manufacturers, and in August 1995 the Indian Defense Secretary Nambiar went to Russia to observe tests of the missiles near Moscow. The $1 billion purchase is said to include six S-300 systems, with each combat system consisting of 48 missiles. Reportedly in June 1996 27 S-300 missiles were delivered to India. Cyprus signed an agreement with Rosvooruzhenie (Russian Armament) state arms-trade agency on 4 January 1996.
I guess you haven't read the post I linked earlier in this thread. If you read it, and the sites it links you will find more information.
Weapons systems have to be tested. There are all sorts of areas around the country designated for testing these systems. One is off the south shore of Long Island in a block of airspace up to and including 15,000 feet. Several times a year this area is off limits to civilian aviation. July 17, 1996 was such a night. There were all sorts of naval assets in the area, and they all beat a hasty retreat when TWA 800 fell into the sea, contrary to all maritime norms (of coming to the aid of a striken craft) and military norms (defending the country if it were indeed under attack).
ML/NJ
I assume that the Navy was testing some sort of new system. It's pretty hard to know what sort of exhaust plume some system under test migh display, unless one is part of the team doing the testing.
ML/NJ
You are correct. I misread this.
ML/NJ
We are surrounded by thieves and traitors.
The ENEMY IS WITHIN.
According to the folks who say that the Navy shot down TWA 800, the Navy was testing the Cooperative Engagement Capability, or CEC. It uses the same Standard Block IV missile; it merely links together multiple sensors so that a missile can be guided by a radar not located on the firing platform.
It's pretty hard to know what sort of exhaust plume some system under test migh display, unless one is part of the team doing the testing.
Changing the software does not change the exhaust plume of the missile. The ship blamed for the missile shot--the USS Normandy--was at the very edge of the Standard Block IV missile envelope. By the time the missile would've gotten to Flight 800, it would've been past the end of its sustainer motor phase--there would've been no exhaust visible.
A Standard Block IV has a very impressive launch phase. The sustainer phase is very non-impressive, and with good reason: you do NOT want a surface-to-air-missile that leaves a very visible exhaust trail to alert the enemy pilot.
How do you get it going fast enough without the booster?
You'd still need an rather large vessel to carry the launcher, target acquisition radars, and guidance radars, along with their power supplies.
How do you get it going fast enough without the booster?
I'm thinking somewhat less of a booster than standard. I'm no aerospace engineer, but I guess if Saddam's old Scuds could be hotrodded, so could a more modern solid-fuel unit.
You'd still need an rather large vessel to carry the launcher, target acquisition radars, and guidance radars, along with their power supplies.
It'd need to be both a large enough vehicle to low-profile and yet carry a 7 meter/21 foot-long missile in its shipping container and with enough deck spece to erect and fire it; not impossible given a 30-footer or so, but a bit more than could be managed from a ski boat or Boston Whaler. A smallish houseboat might be a possibility, though.
And it might be possible to eliminate much of the supporting electronics if the guidance system were reworked to home in on an airliner's transponder instead.
Nope. Too small.
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